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| Moose (Eurasian Elk) v Estemmenosuchus uralensis | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 3 2014, 07:12 PM (2,697 Views) | |
| Taipan | Mar 3 2014, 07:12 PM Post #1 |
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Moose (Eurasian Elk) - Alces alces The moose (North America) or Eurasian elk (Europe) (Alces alces) is the largest extant species in the deer family. Moose are distinguished by the palmate antlers of the males; other members of the family have antlers with a dendritic ("twig-like") configuration. Moose typically inhabit boreal and mixed deciduous forests of the Northern Hemisphere in temperate to subarctic climates. Moose lack upper front teeth, but have eight sharp incisors on the lower jaw. On average, an adult moose stands 1.4–2.1 m (4.6–6.9 ft) high at the shoulder, which is more than a foot higher than the next largest deer on average, the Elk. Males (or "bulls") weigh 380–700 kg (840–1,500 lb) and females (or "cows") typically weigh 200–360 kg (440–790 lb).[50] The head-and-body length is 2.4–3.2 m (7.9–10 ft), with the vestigal tail adding only a further 5–12 cm (2.0–4.7 in). The largest of all the races is the Alaskan subspecies (A. a. gigas), which can stand over 2.1 m (7 ft) at the shoulder, has a span across the antlers of 1.8 m (6 ft) and averages 634.5 kg (1,396 lbs) in males and 478 kg (1,052 lbs) in females. Typically, however, the antlers of a mature bull are between 1.2 m (3.9 ft) and 1.5 m (4.9 ft). The largest confirmed size for this species was a bull shot at the Yukon River in September 1897 that weighed 820 kg (1,800 lb) and measured 2.33 m (7.6 ft) high at the shoulder. Behind only the bison, the Moose is the second largest land animal in both North America and Europe. ![]() Estemmenosuchus uralensis Estemmenosuchus lived some 267 million years ago. Two species have been identified, from the Ocher in the Perm region or Russia. They differ in size, shape of the skull, and shape of the horns. Estemmenosuchus uralensis ("Crowned Crocodile of the Ural Mountains") is the second most primitive therapsid after the Biarmosuchia. The species was found with the Biarmosuchians Eotitanosuchus olsoni and Biarmosuchus tener and with Estemmenosuchus mirabilis in channel flood deposits of the young Ural Mountains. The species are characterised by horns which project upward and outward on the side of the head. The mouth contained large canines with small molar teeth. The animal had a sprawling posture as indicated by analysing its shoulder joints. It has been suggested that the animal was warm blooded, as its large size (4-5 metres long) and small surface area suggests a warm-blooded mammal. But other scientist believe it was cold blooded, similar to today's reptiles. It has been also suggested that it was a carnivore, but the majority opinion at present is that Estemmenosuchus was a herbivore.
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| Ausar | Mar 3 2014, 10:10 PM Post #2 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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Estemmenosuchus is undeniably more heavily built with thicker limbs. It could overpower the cervid much more easily than vice versa. And with that great bulk, it will be hard for the moose to kill the dinocephalian with its antlers, which, IMHO, aren't exactly the best things to kill similar sized animals with, despite those tines. On the other hand, the dinocephalian can bite the moose's legs, thus crippling it and finish it off. That, or it can overpower it in a struggle and then kill it. Estemmenosuchus at least 80% of the time. |
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| Carcharadon | Mar 4 2014, 12:42 AM Post #3 |
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Shark Toothed Reptile
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Estemmenosuchus wins, it's simply bulkier as it can bite the moose on the neck or legs. |
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| blaze | Mar 4 2014, 02:26 AM Post #4 |
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Carnivore
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Don't be deceived by how wide their limb bones (of Estemmenosuchus) look from the side.
The skeleton is not properly mounted btw, the backlimbs should be straight not sprawling IIRC. |
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| Ausar | Mar 4 2014, 06:19 AM Post #5 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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![]() Still looks more compactly built to me. Btw, who is the owner of the skull in the background with the long tooth? Edited by Ausar, Mar 4 2014, 08:42 AM.
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| blaze | Mar 4 2014, 09:52 AM Post #6 |
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Carnivore
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But that compact-ness is because of its very short legs, how is being short legged going to help him against the much taller and not considerably lighter moose?![]() Estemmenosuchus uralensis modified from Ivakhnenko (2001). The backlegs... I might have left them a little too short. The E. uralensis represents the specimen with the largest skull, the moose is 190cm tall, very average for males over 1.5 years old according to Jensen et al. (2013), the tallest in the study was 220cm tall. The owner of the long fanged skull, I don't know... it appears to be an I found it, Ivantosaurus ensifer, a biarmosuchian, probably synonymous with Eotitanosuchus olsoni and Biarmosuchus tener. Edited by blaze, Mar 4 2014, 10:57 AM.
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| Ausar | Mar 4 2014, 09:43 PM Post #7 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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The height discrepancy doesn't look that big in my honest opinion, it looks like the dinocephalian grabbing the snout doesn't seem like an impossibility (of course, it needs to struggle with the moose). Even then, it could aim for the relatively thin legs of the cervid. I don't care what anyone may suggest later on, kicks with the hooves are not going to kill it, at least not without numerous kicks (at least from what I believe). The antlers are indeed an issue, but IMHO, Estemmenosuchus' jaws will make the better tool here.
Edited by Ausar, Mar 4 2014, 09:56 PM.
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| spinosaurus rex | Mar 4 2014, 10:22 PM Post #8 |
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Carnivore
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i agree with the post above |
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