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African Lion v Marshosaurus bicentesimus
Topic Started: Apr 13 2014, 08:39 PM (13,660 Views)
Taipan
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African Lion - Panthera leo
The lion (Panthera leo) is one of the four big cats in the genus Panthera, and a member of the family Felidae. With some males exceeding 250 kg (550 lb) in weight, it is the second-largest living cat after the tiger. Wild lions currently exist in Sub-Saharan Africa and in Asia with an endangered remnant population in Gir Forest National Park in India, having disappeared from North Africa and Southwest Asia in historic times. Until the late Pleistocene, about 10,000 years ago, the lion was the most widespread large land mammal after humans. They were found in most of Africa, across Eurasia from western Europe to India, and in the Americas from the Yukon to Peru. The lion is a vulnerable species, having seen a possibly irreversible population decline of thirty to fifty percent over the past two decades in its African range. The African lion is a very large cat, with males weighing between 330 and 550 pounds and females weighing between 260 and 400 pounds. It is 8 to 10 feet long, not including the tail. Its most famous feature is its mane, which only male lions have. The mane is a yellow color when the lion is young and darkens with age. Eventually, the mane will be dark brown. The body of the African lion is well suited for hunting. It is very muscular, with back legs designed for pouncing and front legs made for grabbing and knocking down prey. It also has very strong jaws that enable it to eat the large prey that it hunts.

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Marshosaurus bicentesimus
Marshosaurus was a genus of medium sized theropod, with a size up to 5 or 6 meters (16 to 20 feet) in length and a skull about 60 cm (2 feet) long. It is known from parts of at least three (possibly four) individuals from the Morrison Formation of Utah and Colorado. The holotype is a left ilium, or upper pelvis bone found at the Cleveland-Lloyd Quarry in central Utah. It was named by James Madsen (1976) for Othniel Charles Marsh, who described many dinosaur fossils during the Bone Wars. The species name was chosen "in honor of the bicentennial of the United States of America". Characters on the skeleton show it was an avetheropod, a member of Avetheropoda, a group of more bird-like theropods including Tyrannosaurus, Velociraptor and Allosaurus. Benson (et al., 2009) found it to be a megalosauroid, using a lot of new characters of new Megalosaurus specimens. It lived during the Kimmeridgian (Late Jurassic), approximately 155 - 150 mya. One right ilium of a Marshosaurus bicentesimus is deformed by "an undescribed pathology" which probably originated as a consequence of injury. Another specimen has a pathological rib. In a 2001 study conducted by Bruce Rothschild and other paleontologists, 5 foot bones referred to Marshosaurus were examined for signs of stress fracture, but none were found.

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Ausar
Apr 13 2014, 04:41 AM
That was based off an incorrect weight for a Nile crocodile of certain length. But I thought of a match that will be more interesting IMO. African lion vs. Marshosaurus.
Edited by Taipan, Jul 11 2017, 12:29 PM.
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Marek
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Ausar
Apr 14 2014, 03:43 AM
As well as possibly the hindlimbs.
Definitely the hind limbs; predatory birds with relatively unimpressive legs today stomp and kick prey and rivals, so why should not have dinosaurs? Marshosaurus for the win.
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spinosaurus rex
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well, for one thing, some of the largest species of birds of prey weigh around 7 kg +. this it a 200- 250 kg + megalosaur. so i doubt it would have the amount of dexterity with its hind limbs as extant raptors or other predatory bird. but it is indeed a possibility, even a probrability, but it's not a major advantage. imo, jaws, detition, arms, and claws are what making marshosaurus the victor
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Ausar
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Well, in one thread, theropod believed that theropods with relatively kinetic metatarsi (I'm not sure if Marshosaurus would have this) could have used their hindlimbs more in prey handling. They would just press their weight down on their foot, etc. Tyrant also believed that non-avian theropod legs look like those of large ratites, and I guess you can extend this to most, if not all large flightless birds (and given their phylogenetic relationship, this isn't a surprise). And large flightless birds kick with their legs, and extinct ones are believed to have done so (particularly phorusrachids). While there are a handful of dissimilarities, I personally think that theropods that weren't overly huge might have been capable of doing so. I'm not saying I'm 100% sure they did this, but it's something to consider.
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The All-seeing Night
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I don't see how the lion has much of a "stability" advantage. Yes, it stands on all fours, but the dinosaur is heavier and its toes are probably very widely splayed out. Anyways, I don't see the dinosaur being able to catch the lion in its jaws. The lion to me looks to be able to leap upon the dinosaur or tackle it from the side. Or grab that neck.
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Ausar
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The dinosaur is only ~5% heavier on average for one thing. Splayed out toes won't make too much of a difference when it comes to stability against a felid with twice as much limbs.

That said, I see no reason why the theropod can't catch the lion.
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spinosaurus rex
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mechafire
Apr 14 2014, 06:43 AM
I don't see how the lion has much of a "stability" advantage. Yes, it stands on all fours, but the dinosaur is heavier and its toes are probably very widely splayed out. Anyways, I don't see the dinosaur being able to catch the lion in its jaws. The lion to me looks to be able to leap upon the dinosaur or tackle it from the side. Or grab that neck.
i really don't see any reason why the theropod can't catch the lion. i just see the theropod using its hight advantage and large skull to fattally lacerate, maybe even crush the areas it bites, it can even use its forearms to worsten the damage
Edited by spinosaurus rex, Apr 14 2014, 06:54 AM.
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The All-seeing Night
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spinosaurus rex
Apr 14 2014, 06:53 AM
mechafire
Apr 14 2014, 06:43 AM
I don't see how the lion has much of a "stability" advantage. Yes, it stands on all fours, but the dinosaur is heavier and its toes are probably very widely splayed out. Anyways, I don't see the dinosaur being able to catch the lion in its jaws. The lion to me looks to be able to leap upon the dinosaur or tackle it from the side. Or grab that neck.
i really don't see any reason why the theropod can't catch the lion. i just see the theropod using its hight advantage and large skull to fattally lacerate, maybe even crush the areas it bites, it can even use its forearms to worsten the damage
Fair enough, I just think the cat is too quick and agile. It might be able to get around the head or to grab the neck (throat or back of the neck).
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Vodmeister
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Superpredator
Apr 13 2014, 11:24 PM
Done!
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Not sure if I got the length of Marshosaurus right though.
If that size comparison is accurate, I favor the lion. It has a lower center of gravity, better stability, and is a better grappler. I suspect that the lion would wrestle the marsho into submission.
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Spinodontosaurus
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Safe to say that claims of Marshosaurus being 6 meters long are somewhat optimistic, as are 60 cm figures for its skull (<4.5 meters and <50 cm more like), a weight of 200 kg or more is perfectly realistic though.

And of course Marshosaurus would have had those crazy robust megalosauroid forelimbs, and the skull is still massive for an animal it's size.

If the Lion could successfully get to the flanks of the theropod, it should be capable of grappling it to the floor for it to place a killing bite. If Marshosaurus can keep facing the lion - which I believe it should be capable of despite a probable disadvantage in terms of manoeuvrability - then it's bite should do the rest, plus the forelimbs if required, so I favour it here.
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The All-seeing Night
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Again, I don't see how the lion has much of a stability edge (or even needs it). Not only are the dinosaur's toes widely splayed out, but the lion often assumes an upright posture when fighting or when grappling prey.
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Ausar
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mechafire
Apr 14 2014, 07:31 AM
Again, I don't see how the lion has much of a stability edge (or even needs it). Not only are the dinosaur's toes widely splayed out, but the lion often assumes an upright posture when fighting or when grappling prey.
You know what, let's just leave it at this. Theropods were quite stable in absolute terms anyway.
Edited by Ausar, Apr 14 2014, 07:43 AM.
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Carcharadon
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I'd back marshosaurus, it has a dimensional size advantage along with a much bigger skull, i think it can simply just fit the lion's head in its jaws. Its claws also look bigger than the lion's.
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Superpredator
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The theropod wins IMO, the arms and the bite should do the job.
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marcin l
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Apr 13 2014, 11:24 PM
Done!
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Not sure if I got the length of Marshosaurus right though.
THIS is not right if human have average 1,8 m than your estimation marshosaurus have around 3,6-3,8 m whcih is far to correct 5-6 m
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marcin l
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spinosaurus rex
Apr 13 2014, 10:15 PM
it's around the weight range of 200- 250 kg
200-250 kg ? well i see to much diffrent estimated looks like marhosaurus but with 6 m long average looks moore like 350-450 kg i me opinion
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