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African Lion v Marshosaurus bicentesimus
Topic Started: Apr 13 2014, 08:39 PM (13,658 Views)
Taipan
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African Lion - Panthera leo
The lion (Panthera leo) is one of the four big cats in the genus Panthera, and a member of the family Felidae. With some males exceeding 250 kg (550 lb) in weight, it is the second-largest living cat after the tiger. Wild lions currently exist in Sub-Saharan Africa and in Asia with an endangered remnant population in Gir Forest National Park in India, having disappeared from North Africa and Southwest Asia in historic times. Until the late Pleistocene, about 10,000 years ago, the lion was the most widespread large land mammal after humans. They were found in most of Africa, across Eurasia from western Europe to India, and in the Americas from the Yukon to Peru. The lion is a vulnerable species, having seen a possibly irreversible population decline of thirty to fifty percent over the past two decades in its African range. The African lion is a very large cat, with males weighing between 330 and 550 pounds and females weighing between 260 and 400 pounds. It is 8 to 10 feet long, not including the tail. Its most famous feature is its mane, which only male lions have. The mane is a yellow color when the lion is young and darkens with age. Eventually, the mane will be dark brown. The body of the African lion is well suited for hunting. It is very muscular, with back legs designed for pouncing and front legs made for grabbing and knocking down prey. It also has very strong jaws that enable it to eat the large prey that it hunts.

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Marshosaurus bicentesimus
Marshosaurus was a genus of medium sized theropod, with a size up to 5 or 6 meters (16 to 20 feet) in length and a skull about 60 cm (2 feet) long. It is known from parts of at least three (possibly four) individuals from the Morrison Formation of Utah and Colorado. The holotype is a left ilium, or upper pelvis bone found at the Cleveland-Lloyd Quarry in central Utah. It was named by James Madsen (1976) for Othniel Charles Marsh, who described many dinosaur fossils during the Bone Wars. The species name was chosen "in honor of the bicentennial of the United States of America". Characters on the skeleton show it was an avetheropod, a member of Avetheropoda, a group of more bird-like theropods including Tyrannosaurus, Velociraptor and Allosaurus. Benson (et al., 2009) found it to be a megalosauroid, using a lot of new characters of new Megalosaurus specimens. It lived during the Kimmeridgian (Late Jurassic), approximately 155 - 150 mya. One right ilium of a Marshosaurus bicentesimus is deformed by "an undescribed pathology" which probably originated as a consequence of injury. Another specimen has a pathological rib. In a 2001 study conducted by Bruce Rothschild and other paleontologists, 5 foot bones referred to Marshosaurus were examined for signs of stress fracture, but none were found.

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Ausar
Apr 13 2014, 04:41 AM
That was based off an incorrect weight for a Nile crocodile of certain length. But I thought of a match that will be more interesting IMO. African lion vs. Marshosaurus.
Edited by Taipan, Jul 11 2017, 12:29 PM.
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spinosaurus rex
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1. dude, your like a tape recorder. i honestly don't see why you think marshosaurus was far outclassed in agillity even though their similar weights.

2. its a little something called rotational inertia. something that would magnitude the turn radius to a major degree of theropods

3. although i don't have a source that discribes in detail about the dextarity of the finger joints, i really don't think it's much of an issue. those large claws are there for a reason,so yes.

4.facepalm
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5. a lion has never went against a creature of such physiology. your use of prey items as defence is usless. not only do predator/prey relationships do not equel to how two opponents would face off, a lion never went head to head with a creature it's size that can literally swallow it's head

6. your last comment was filled with assumtions. a lion would rear up and surpass the theropod in height, with out it retaliating? it could just as well slam it's jaws onto the lion when it attempts that. why cant the theropod rear up? and i'm pretty sure owning a large set of forearms and claws would mean the organism will know when to put it into good use.
having larger demensions is an advantage. you have a larger area to attack. a 50 cm skull would pretty much allow marshosaurus to inflict damage on nearly avery area on the lions body. the same cannot be said for the latter.
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Ausar
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Am I going to have to (once again) post evidence that theropods were able to make up for their elongate body plan and reduce rotational inertia?
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spinosaurus rex
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you possibly have too. he's just not getting the idea
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Black Ice
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The theropod could probably grasp with its claws and that's about it, but as far as manipulation outside forward and back movements I doubt it had the flexibility for it.

That being said I favor the theropod.
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spinosaurus rex
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i also doubt marshosaurus had the required dextarity for manipulation of it's prey, but again, these arms are tipped with large thumb claws. i imagine them as a complamentary weapon to it's large and robustly built skull.
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Ausar
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Theropod believed that the hindlimbs will likely come in last, and that is what I believe here too. I believe the theropod will catch the lion with its jaws and then its forelimbs and hindlimbs to help subdue the lion.
Edited by Ausar, Apr 19 2014, 01:22 AM.
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Hatzegopteryx
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mechafire
Apr 18 2014, 12:39 PM
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2:speed is also not a major advantage. assuming this is a face off ,the two opponents would be in close proximity of eachother, speed is rendered useless.

No its not, the lion can still make quick turns and leaps and its opponent. As well as allowing the lion to avoid being bitten, get a favorable position quicker, and deliver rapid paw strikes.
That's agility which derives from agility, speed is running.
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Hatzegopteryx
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spinosaurus rex
Apr 19 2014, 01:16 AM
i also doubt marshosaurus had the required dextarity for manipulation of it's prey, but again, these arms are tipped with large thumb claws. i imagine them as a complamentary weapon to it's large and robustly built skull.
It has jaws for grappling stuff.
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221Extra
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Lion is too fleet footed & explosive for the Theropod, thus the speed at which the Lion attacks would be subsequently overwhelming.
Edited by 221Extra, Apr 19 2014, 02:18 AM.
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Asadas
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Not sure how close the Sinocalli is to the MB but here is a study i found
Posted Image

Lion-size dinosaur 'stalked like a cat'

A LION-sized "furry" dinosaur must have stalked its prey like a cat, researchers have found.

A Canadian-Chinese research team has published a study in the journal PLoS One the results of a careful analysis of the stomach remains of two Sinocalliopteryx fossils.

The Sinocalliopteryx dinosaurs were about the size of a lion - 2.5m long - and had powerful hind legs.

It appears to have used its agility and intelligence to stalk and outwit birds, flying dinosaurs, lizards and mammals.

Sinocalliopteryx didn't have wings or the physical tools needed to be an adept tree climber to snare birds on branches, said study co-author Scott Persons. However, it did have feather-filaments like fur covering its body.

So, given its size and apparent agility, the researchers suggest the dinosaur must have used ambush techniques similar to modern cats.

Two unusually high quality fossils of this Cretaceous animal were recovered from Jehol Provence in north-east China.

It was the stomach remains of these fossils that have provided the clues to the Sinocalliopteryx diet.

The researchers say the prevalence of bird remains in these stomachs indicated the dinosaur must have actively hunted its prey.

The remains of a Sinonithosaurus - a 1m long feathered flying dinosaur - were found in the stomach of one.

The second fossil contained two primitive birds, known as Confuciusorni.

The bite of the MB could be massive but those arms are pretty useless against the lion. 65% favor lion. Look at the leg muscles, the MB is smaller.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/lion-like-dinosaur-stalked-like-a-cat/story-e6frfro0-1226462920260

Can someone post a study of the diet of the MB, or physical attributes? More than likely the diet consisted of birds and small prey, unlike the lion which doesn't discriminate based on size. The reason I ask is, this will answer the risk a predator takes and likely outcome of a fight.

70% favor lion

thanks
Edited by Asadas, Apr 19 2014, 02:50 AM.
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spinosaurus rex
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your post makes little sence. how is a 2 meter long sinocalliopteryx going to be compattible with the physic anatomy of marshosaurus? it's completely not. sinocalliopteryx was a compsognathid. marshosaurus was either a megalosaur.

your second sentence shows you have not seen the skeleton of marshosaurus. they were very long and tipped with large thumb claws. saying they were useless in combat is rediculous.

may i also note that the lion did not have a size advantage or a major one. they were likely at weight parity.
Edited by spinosaurus rex, Apr 26 2014, 12:02 AM.
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Carcharadon
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Asadas
Apr 19 2014, 02:47 AM
Not sure how close the Sinocalli is to the MB but here is a study i found
Posted Image

Lion-size dinosaur 'stalked like a cat'

A LION-sized "furry" dinosaur must have stalked its prey like a cat, researchers have found.

A Canadian-Chinese research team has published a study in the journal PLoS One the results of a careful analysis of the stomach remains of two Sinocalliopteryx fossils.

The Sinocalliopteryx dinosaurs were about the size of a lion - 2.5m long - and had powerful hind legs.

It appears to have used its agility and intelligence to stalk and outwit birds, flying dinosaurs, lizards and mammals.

Sinocalliopteryx didn't have wings or the physical tools needed to be an adept tree climber to snare birds on branches, said study co-author Scott Persons. However, it did have feather-filaments like fur covering its body.

So, given its size and apparent agility, the researchers suggest the dinosaur must have used ambush techniques similar to modern cats.

Two unusually high quality fossils of this Cretaceous animal were recovered from Jehol Provence in north-east China.

It was the stomach remains of these fossils that have provided the clues to the Sinocalliopteryx diet.

The researchers say the prevalence of bird remains in these stomachs indicated the dinosaur must have actively hunted its prey.

The remains of a Sinonithosaurus - a 1m long feathered flying dinosaur - were found in the stomach of one.

The second fossil contained two primitive birds, known as Confuciusorni.

The bite of the MB could be massive but those arms are pretty useless against the lion. 65% favor lion. Look at the leg muscles, the MB is smaller.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/lion-like-dinosaur-stalked-like-a-cat/story-e6frfro0-1226462920260

Can someone post a study of the diet of the MB, or physical attributes? More than likely the diet consisted of birds and small prey, unlike the lion which doesn't discriminate based on size. The reason I ask is, this will answer the risk a predator takes and likely outcome of a fight.

70% favor lion

thanks
WTF

Sinocalliopteryx as an analogy to marshosaurus?

For one, sinocalliopteryx was only about 20 kg, which is a blatantly far cry from "lion-sized". Furthermore, sinocalliopteryx is a compsognathid, it is very gracile and poorly armed compared to marshosaurus, as the latter is a megalosauroid. Marshosaurus is much better suited for attacking large prey.

How the hell is a 20 kg compsognathid in any way comparable to a 200-ish kg megalosauroid? What relevance does it even hold in this match?
Edited by Carcharadon, Apr 19 2014, 03:10 AM.
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Hatzegopteryx
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None, the post is nonsense.
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marcin l
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Tyrant
Apr 18 2014, 03:46 PM
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. The lion is more stable, lower to the ground, and has excellent grappling skills accompanied by a set of fairly powerful jaws.


I am skeptical of this belief that big cats are more stable than the theropod. Yes quadrupeds are generally more stable than bipeds, but when grappling not all of the cats limbs would still be planted on the ground. I also don't think the cat's usual stragety of restraining the other animals head would be very effective in this fight as not only is it facing a predator with jaws far more deadly than its own, it would also be in reach of the megolsaurs own claws.

try to imagination yourself theropod on bakc down to the gorund now you see haw hard they can stand up ,and about marchoaurus in one photo it dont have claws and short arm in another longer with bigger claws so i dont have vote one this fight .
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Asadas
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Anyone have any scientific data on diet?

Let me clear I don't know much about Dino's but those arms are pretty useless for holding down apex predators (adult's which are not predated upon.

My guess is, diet is similar to the one posted, small birds and small prey and or hyper-scavengor behaviour which eats the remains of "larger" Dino's.

For those that have the analytic ability to think outside the box..

regards
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