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Who wins?
Beringian Wolf 1 (8.3%)
Dire Wolf 11 (91.7%)
Total Votes: 12
Beringian Wolf v Dire Wolf
Topic Started: May 7 2014, 10:15 PM (5,147 Views)
Taipan
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Beringian Wolf - Canis lupus
The Beringian wolf was a hypercarnivorous ecomorph of gray wolf which inhabited eastern Beringia during the Late Pleistocene. Its mtDNA haplotypes did not correspond to any found in modern North American gray wolf populations, thus indicating that modern North American gray wolves are not descended from it. Its phylogeny indicates that, aside from Canis lupus pallipes, the Beringian wolf's unique haplotypes are basal to other gray wolves, and are shared only with extinct European and modern Italian wolf populations. Although similar in size to modern Alaskan gray wolves, its skull had a short, broad palate and relatively large carnassials, giving it an exceptionally powerful bite. This feature was not shared by other extant and extinct North American gray wolves, thus indicating that the Beringian wolf was a specialized predator and scavenger of Pleistocene megafauna. This is confirmed by the stable isotopes found in its bone collagen, with the most frequent values corresponding to wild horse and bison. Additionally, Beringian wolf skulls display a much greater degree of tooth wear and fracture than in extant grey wolf populations and slightly more than in dire wolves. Although the gray wolf occurred throughout Pleistocene North America, the Beringian ecomorph never expanded its range below the Wisconsin ice sheet, probably due to the presence of dire wolves, which had already appropriated the niche of specialized megafaunal predators.

Dire Wolf - Canis dirus
The Dire wolf (Canis dirus) is an extinct carnivorous mammal of the genus Canis, and was most common in North America and South America from the Irvingtonian stage to the Rancholabrean stage of the Pleistocene epoch living 1.80 Ma – 10,000 years ago, existing for approximately 1.79 million years. lthough it was closely related to the Gray Wolf and other sister species, Canis dirus was not the direct ancestor of any species known today. Unlike the Gray Wolf, which is of Eurasian origin, the Dire Wolf evolved on the North American continent, along with the Coyote. The Dire Wolf co-existed with the Gray Wolf in North America for about 100,000 years. he Dire Wolf was larger than the Gray Wolf, averaging about 1.5 metres (5 ft) in length and weighing between 50 kg (110 lb) and 79 kg (174 lb). Despite superficial similarities to the Gray Wolf, there were significant differences between the two species. The legs of the Dire Wolf were proportionally shorter and sturdier than those of the Gray Wolf, and its brain case was smaller than that of a similarly sized gray wolf. The Dire Wolf's teeth were similar to the Gray Wolf's, only slightly larger, pointing to a hypercarnivorous to mesocarnivorous activity. Paleontologist R.M. Nowak states the dietary characteristics are primarily carnivorous as well as partially omnivorous.

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kingkazma
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I found some new information on this wolf
Since it crossed the beringian land bridge I'll assume this is the same species or a predecessor.


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http://downloads.hindawi.com/journals/isrn.zoology/2013/138319.pdf

The third large predator, the Ice Age wolf (Canis lupus cf. spelaeus), is known from over much of Europe including the studied region (Figures 1(b) and 10) and also used particular parts of caves for cub raising during the Pleistocene [53]. These wolves have been less well studied and it was not previously clear if they also consumed or killed cave bears in their caves.

3.4. Wolf Bones and Den Marking Faeces

Some of the coprolites from the Sophie’s Cave (Figure 11) were found in situ, together with wolf, cave bear, and mustelid bones (Figures 10(a) and 10(b)).
Of the wolf bones recovered, 52 were from the distal part of the Bear’s Passage (Figures 10(c), (2)–(35)) and have recently been recognized as belonging to a single individual: an adult Canis lupus cf. spelaeus (Goldfuss 1823) with pathological damage (middle thoracic vertebra, dorsal spine damage, Figure 10(c), (4)). This is a large Ice Age wolf subspecies similar to the Canadian arctic-boral mountain-adapted timber wolf [54] that has not yet been well defined by DNA [55]. Wolf populations are also known from other caves in the area (the Zoolithen and Große Teufels Caves, Figure 1(b)). Their dens have also been identified, especially in the Zoolithen Cave which had a large population and has yielded more then 380 bones (Figure 14(a)) as well as several skulls (including a holotype, [2]). Some postcranial bones have been compared, having similarly large proportions to those from the Sophie’s and Große Teufels Caves where the bone sizes are closer to those of Scandinavian Arctic and Canadian Columbian wolf subspecies [54–58] than to those of the smaller European wolves. They possibly belong to a specialized Late Pleistocene wolf ecomorph [55].

Coprolites (91 nearly complete and 160 fragments) were found at the end of the Bear’s Passage that was blocked from the Reindeer Hall prior to its use as a wolf den (Figure 5(a)). At this time the cave bears were unable to penetrate the cave system to their deep hibernation areas in the Millionary Hall (Figure 5(a)) and were therefore too close to today’s blocked entrance and within easy access of predators. About twelve of the coprolite pellets contain visible bone fragments, mainly of spongiosa bone material (Figures  11(1) and 11(3)–11(6)). Those are similar to spongiosa in cave bear bones, most probably from the vertebrae and pelvic bones. Few bone compacta are present, mainly resembling rib fragments found in the pellets or in the sediment (Figure 12). They are different from hyena coprolites in which more massive bone compacta fragments are generally preserved [59, 60]. The Sophie’s Cave wolf faeces can also be distinguished from hyena pellets by their different shape and size. Hyenas formed larger aggregates (up to 5 cm in diameter; [32, 59, 60]), that had a more disc-like or larger drop-shape [59, 60]. Wolf excrements instead are more elongated and slim with maximum diamater of 2.5 cm (Figure 11). Because of the large quantities of pellets and following comparisons with the faeces of modern wolves, a reasonably firm attribution to wolves can be made [61, 62].

Figure 13: A picture story of the scavenging on cave bears by the three large Ice Age predators, and their differences in bite and jaw/tooth specializations for specific functions. (a) Ice Age steppe lion on its cave bear kill, consuming only the intestines and inner organs, and possibly some meat (e.g., tenderloins on the inner lumbal vertebral column) using its meat-cutting dentition (carcass initial feeding, possibly initial carcass decomposition). (b) Ice Age spotted hyenas destroying and damaging the cave bear carcass, including bone crushing with its bone crushing dentition (carcass initial feeding, decomposition, consuming of body parts, and skull and bone crushing). (c) Ice Age wolf consuming distal parts, soft ribs, and spongious parts of the pelvis and even the vertebrae, paws, and tail, that were left by other predators (single bone chewing). These wolves marked part of the Bear’s Passage with their faeces, in which several cave bear bone fragments prove that they fed on cave bear carcasses and used the cave as their den (“cave imaging” illustrations by G. “Rinaldino” Teichmann; Graphics: PaleoLogic).

3.5. Partly Digested Cave Bear Bones

The sieved smaller bone fragmentary material from the Bear’s Passage yielded 360 bone fragments that must have passed through a carnivore’s stomach. These bones and bone fragments show dissolution structures such as the irregular surfaces on several phalanges and sesamoids (Figure 12, (1)–(9)), including stomach acid corrosion holes (Figure 12, (32)). These partly digested bones are compacta or spongiosa bone fragments from all parts of cave bear anatomies, although fragments of massive long bones are relatively rare and only very small (Figure 12, (23)–(27)).

Most of the bone material that has dissolute surfaces cannot be clearly attributed to carnivores but the coincidence of finding damaged cave bear vertebral columns as well as their cracked and chewed bones and wolf coprolites in the same area makes it seem likely that these fragments have all originated from cave bears. Stronger evidence comes from five cave bear phalanges (three first and two second phalanges), two sesamoids, a thyrohyoid, and three vertebrae central fragments that are secure of cave bear origin (Figure 12, (1)–(13)). These coprolites which can be well distinguished with their elongated forms from those of hyena aggregate pellets [59] and bone fragments, together with the damaged bones, provide the first evidence in Europe suggesting scavenging by wolves within a cave. The small pieces of bone spongiosa and ribs in the coprolites all seem to be of only cave bear origin, and thus the pellets with bones, partly digested bones, and bones damaged by chewing found in the Bear’s Passage of the Sophie’s Cave must have ultimately been the result of wolves scavenging on cave bear carcasses (especially ribs, vertebral column, and pedal bones), and of the den marking behaviour exhibited by modern wolves [54, 61–63].

The Ice Age wolf in Europe Canis lupus cf. spelaeus is herein newly introduced as a “cave bear scavenger” and is not revised yet as lack of DNA studies, but its bone proportions are close to the Canadian timber wolf compared to skeletal material, and the Late Pleistocene wolf of Central Europe was a little larger than the modern European wolf. They possibly belong to a specialized Late Pleistocene wolf ecomorph [55]. It also appears that in the early to middle Late Pleistocene this large wolf existed all over Europe, which was then replaced directly within the maximum glaciation by the smaller wolf type, which finally disappeared with the reindeer fauna, replaced finally by the Holocene warm period European wolf Canis lupus lupus. Also the ecology of early to middle Late Pleistocene wolf within the mammoth steppe and boreal forests was quite unknown, also if those used caves as dens. Denning in wolves was reported in a first study in the Late Pleistocene of northern Italy [53], but similar as in Germany, most hyena “wolf den caves” overlap with “hyena den sites,” and the question still remains, if hyenas imported wolf carcass remains to their dens (in bone accumulations typically present), or if wolf bones in caves are simply results of their den use, and scavenging on wolf carcasses by hyenas? The taphonomy of wolves in “hyena den bone assemblages” remains unsolved. Extant wolf remains are not abundant in smaller caves, which are used by modern wolves as cub raising dens, and modern wolves do not import those amounts of carcass remains (even if it seems to be mainly reindeer) to caves (such as hyenas). At least rarely they only use those shelters for cub raising [56]. Until today, it is unsolved, if wolves used caves as dwellers, as dens, and prey storage or if their bone remains are results of battles with hyenas, lions, and cave bears in caves in the Late Ice Age of Europe. The bone taphonomy situation is even more complex, as in lions, or hyenas.
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Molosser
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definitely the dire wolf.. it's just a larger more robust species with a bone crushing bite.
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kingkazma
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crxgalaxy
May 8 2014, 01:16 AM
definitely the dire wolf.. it's just a larger more robust species with a bone crushing bite.
Beringian wolves break bones slightly more and hunt larger prey. They also have the speed advantage. Dire wolves are only 20% bigger than beringian wolves compared to grays according to red dog.
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Black Ice
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Dire wolves are significantly more robust.

And hunted larger prey? Dire wolves are known megafauna hunters in science.
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kingkazma
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Beringian wolves ate mammoth and other giant megafauna. They also ate bones more.
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Black Ice
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kingkazma
May 8 2014, 04:32 AM
Beringian wolves ate mammoth and other giant megafauna. They also ate bones more.
And Dire Wolves didn't eat mammoths and such?

And regardless being too specialized in bone crushing causes drawbacks in other factors, a reason why wolves today have superior jaws to hyenas when it comes to killing. Not only is the Dire Wolg larger, but it's also significantly more robust and has superior jaws (dentition for cutting is probably better due to less specialized in bone eating which generally happens at the back of the mouth where those teeth are rarely used in fighting). Also,
From the OP
 
the Beringian ecomorph never expanded its range below the Wisconsin ice sheet, probably due to the presence of dire wolves, which had already appropriated the niche of specialized megafaunal predators.


It'll win this pretty easily.
Edited by Black Ice, May 8 2014, 04:51 AM.
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Vivyx
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Dire wolf wins this with relative ease
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kingkazma
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Black Ice
May 8 2014, 04:48 AM
kingkazma
May 8 2014, 04:32 AM
Beringian wolves ate mammoth and other giant megafauna. They also ate bones more.
And Dire Wolves didn't eat mammoths and such?

And regardless being too specialized in bone crushing causes drawbacks in other factors, a reason why wolves today have superior jaws to hyenas when it comes to killing. Not only is the Dire Wolg larger, but it's also significantly more robust and has superior jaws (dentition for cutting is probably better due to less specialized in bone eating which generally happens at the back of the mouth where those teeth are rarely used in fighting). Also,
From the OP
 
the Beringian ecomorph never expanded its range below the Wisconsin ice sheet, probably due to the presence of dire wolves, which had already appropriated the niche of specialized megafaunal predators.


It'll win this pretty easily.
I agree that the dire wolf would win, but not easily. And that doesn't mean dire wolves drove them out , it just means that they already had that niche and had a higher population.
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Black Ice
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kingkazma
May 8 2014, 05:58 AM
Black Ice
May 8 2014, 04:48 AM
kingkazma
May 8 2014, 04:32 AM
Beringian wolves ate mammoth and other giant megafauna. They also ate bones more.
And Dire Wolves didn't eat mammoths and such?

And regardless being too specialized in bone crushing causes drawbacks in other factors, a reason why wolves today have superior jaws to hyenas when it comes to killing. Not only is the Dire Wolg larger, but it's also significantly more robust and has superior jaws (dentition for cutting is probably better due to less specialized in bone eating which generally happens at the back of the mouth where those teeth are rarely used in fighting). Also,
From the OP
 
the Beringian ecomorph never expanded its range below the Wisconsin ice sheet, probably due to the presence of dire wolves, which had already appropriated the niche of specialized megafaunal predators.


It'll win this pretty easily.
I agree that the dire wolf would win, but not easily. And that doesn't mean dire wolves drove them out , it just means that they already had that niche and had a higher population.
They didn't drive them out because the wolf was too scared to ho down there in the first place.
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kingkazma
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Nothing says that...
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Dire wolf wins due to size advantage and possiblely more robust build
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MightyKharza
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The fact that the Beringian wolf was unable to colonise southern North America because of dire wolves says a lot. With the exception of gray foxes vs red foxes, competetive exclusion in canids is relatively simple: the biggest and strongest win, ergo, the dire wolf was a stronger animal.
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Mauro20
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Competition between species isn't that simple. One species can outcompete another by eating a wider array of things, reproducing faster, having a greater resistance to diseases and parasites, etc. Grey foxes dominate red foxes, black-backed jackals dominate side-striped jackals, brown bears dominate polar bears and bobcats dominate Canada lynx, despite them all being usually smaller and presumably weaker than their respective enemies.

That said, I do think the dire wolf will win more often than not.
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Kazanshin
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Mauro20
Apr 2 2018, 09:06 AM
Competition between species isn't that simple. One species can outcompete another by eating a wider array of things, reproducing faster, having a greater resistance to diseases and parasites, etc. Grey foxes dominate red foxes, black-backed jackals dominate side-striped jackals, brown bears dominate polar bears and bobcats dominate Canada lynx, despite them all being usually smaller and presumably weaker than their respective enemies.

That said, I do think the dire wolf will win more often than not.
Damn, that Necro.



Anyways, Dire Wolf wins. Stronger jaws, stronger body, bigger, probably more durable.
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