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What is your view on hunting?; Does hunting contribute to conservation?
Topic Started: Jun 20 2014, 03:19 AM (8,753 Views)
Canadianwildlife
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kingkazma
Jun 20 2014, 08:22 PM
And how come we can not hunt birds of prey?
Come on kingkazma. It is illegal to kill them, they are a protected group of birds, and the bald eagle is the symbol of the United States and other eagle species are symbols for other countries as well. They can also be put to good uses such as falconry. In some countries and lands, birds of prey used by tribes or nomadic hunters provide much of the food and fur coats they use and eat, so they can be used to capture animals to be used for food and clothing.

Read this info regarding some of the persecution these amazing and beautiful birds still face to this day.

The killing has to stop
30 November 2012

Adult peregrine trapped illegally, West Midlands
We must stop birds like this peregrine suffering from cruel and illegal persecution

Image: The RSPB
Killing birds of prey was made illegal more than fifty years ago, but a callous few are choosing to ignore the law. We need your help to finally stop the cruel and unacceptable killing of these magnificent birds.

Please show your support for our bird of prey appeal today and help consign the killing to history.

A tarnished past
When the RSPB was founded in 1889, birds of prey were systematically persecuted. By the early 1900s, five of our 15 species of birds of prey were exterminated as a breeding species.

Others managed to hang on against the odds, not helped by the introduction of a chemical called DDT that was introduced into farming in the 1950s. We can not allow this to happen again.

On the slow road to recovery
Many of the UK's birds of prey have been gradually on the road to recovery.

Successful campaigns to ban DDT, and to gain full legal protection for all birds of prey have meant that over the last 50 years, many birds of prey are recovering well.

Other birds of prey have needed a helping hand.

Red kites and white tailed eagles have been successfully reintroduced to parts of the UK where they were once found. These are all important successes that are worthy of celebration. However, this is not the whole story...

The cruel truth
Since 2006, 2,578 incidents of bird crime involving or targeting wild birds of prey in the UK have been reported to the RSPB.

Since 2006, 2,578 incidents of bird crime involving or targeting wild birds of prey in the UK have been reported to the RSPB.
Shooting, poisoning and trapping continue to be the most frequent forms of illegal killing.

Illegal killing often occurs in remote locations and is therefore difficult to detect. We believe that reported incidents represent a fraction of what actually takes place. The majority of those found guilty of offences involving birds of prey are associated with the game shooting industry.

Red kites - a shocking comparison
Red kites have been reintroduced into the Chilterns in England and the Black Isle in Scotland.

The same numbers of birds were released at both projects, but amazingly there are now over 500 pairs in the Chilterns compared to just over 50 pairs in the Black Isle.

The shocking truth is that this huge difference can be entirely explained by illegal poisoning in areas managed for grouse shooting close to the Scotland release site.

Hen harriers – most affected by persecution
The English population of hen harriers is being held well below its natural level by persecution.

In 2012, just one pair of hen harriers bred successfully in England - there is sufficient suitable upland habitat to support a population of 323-340 pairs.

The English population of hen harriers is being held well below its natural level by persecution.
Scientific studies by the Government's nature conservation advisers, Natural England, have found that illegal killing and destruction of nests is the main cause of this discrepancy.

Incidents of persecution are strongly linked to land managed for intensive 'driven' grouse shooting.

In Scotland, where most of the UK's population is found, it has been estimated that the number of hen harriers would increase by 13% each year if illegal killing was eliminated.

Golden eagles – a symbol of Scotland under threat
In Scotland, golden eagles face a similar problem.

A number of scientific papers, including a Scottish Government published report, have shown that illegal persecution is the biggest factor limiting their current range and population.

It has also been shown that pockets of illegal activity have a detrimental effect over a much wider area. Dispersing young golden eagles are attracted into areas of apparently suitable habitat, only to then disappear due to persecution. http://www.rspb.org.uk/supporting/campaigns/birdsofprey/why.aspx

Possible Conflicts with Humans
Birds of prey are common in urban areas, and they can be beautiful and enjoyable to watch, as well as helpful for controlling rodents, rabbits and birds. Raptors can occasionally cause problems for people when they pursue small pets or domestic animals, nest in an inconvenient location, leave droppings or meal remains behind, or defend their nests when people get too close. Urban areas can actually be dangerous for raptors as many are injured or killed by running into power lines, being electrocuted by power lines, hitting reflective windows, or being disturbed within their nest area.

What Attracts Them?
Raptors may inhabit an area to find food, water, shelter or the space they need to live.

Food items, including rodents, birds, snakes, rabbits and insects, are attractive to raptors. Large birds of prey may also hunt small domestic animals, including dogs, cats and chickens, especially during raptors’ winter migration period from September to April.
Water sources, such as fountains, pools and birdbaths, may attract raptors because a raptor’s prey (doves and pigeons) congregates around bodies of water.
Shelter for raptors can include high perches that offer a view for hunting. These perches can be located in a tree, on a building or tower, on a telephone or electric pole or line, or on any other tall structure. Some raptors build large nests of sticks high in trees, saguaros or power distribution equipment. Cavity-nesting raptors may seek shelter in birdhouses or holes in trees or cacti. Barn and great-horned owls may seek out large buildings, such as hangars or barns, for shelter.
Harris HawkWhat Should I Do?
Raptors can be found almost anywhere, but especially near bird feeders or farms because prey animals are attracted to those areas. Because raptors are protected by law, common solutions include tolerating small disturbances, staying away from nest sites until the young are able to fly, and keeping small pets inside or in enclosures with a roof. Attempts to keep raptors off your property may or may not be effective, and harming a raptor will result in a large fine.

Solutions to common problems:

Diving at people or pets
Raptors sometimes defend their nest or nestlings by swooping very close to a person or pet.
Avoid the area until the young can fly and put up temporary barricades or signs to warn residents in busy areas.
Cover your upper body with an open umbrella to keep the animal at a distance if the area cannot be avoided.
In rare situations, such as a nest in a dangerous or high traffic area, it may be possible to have the nest removed by approved experts from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service’s Migratory Bird Permit Office at (505) 248-7882.
Bird on the ground
Young raptors spend several days on or near the ground while learning to fly. The young birds may seem abandoned, but the parents are usually within sight watching the fledgling.
Keep pets away.
Leave the bird alone; the parents know where it is and will feed it on the ground until it is able to fly.
If the bird is sick or injured (fluffed up, shaking or unable to walk), call a wildlife rehabilitator.

Trapped bird
If a raptor is trapped in a building, you can take several actions.
First, try leaving a door open and shutting the lights off. Have people leave the area for several hours or overnight.
If the bird still doesn’t leave, please call your local Game and Fish office for assistance.
A permit from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service's Migratory Bird Permit Office is needed, if you wind up choosing to trap and remove the bird.

Pets and domestic animals
Raptors may be attracted to small pets or domestic chickens because they are similar to the size of a raptor’s normal prey.
Always keep small pets and other domestic animals in a sturdy enclosure with a roof when outside to keep them safe, or stay outside with your pets when possible.
Arizona raptor populations typically increase during migration and winter (September to April) as northern birds arrive and some forest birds descend to lower elevations. Pay close attention to small pets during this time.

Electrocution/nests
Raptors are often injured or killed on electric power poles.
If you find a dead raptor, don’t pick it up because of human health concerns. It is also illegal to handle live or dead raptors without a permit.
Also, report the dead raptor to the local power company (refer to your electric bill for contact information) and to your local Game and Fish office. In the Tucson area, you can help prevent electrocutions by reporting raptor nests near power equipment or power lines to Tucson Electric Power (520) 623-7711 or the Tucson Game and Fish office at (520) 628-5376, ext. 4446. If it’s an area supplied by the Salt River Project (SRP), call (602) 236-BIRD (236-2473). In an area covered by Arizona Public Service (APS), call (602) 371-7171 in the Phoenix region or (800) 253-9405 elsewhere.
Burrowing OwlRemoval is usually not an option:
Raptors are protected by both state and federal laws, and harassing, trapping, killing, or even possessing bones or feathers without the proper permits can result in large fines. Raptors are territorial, and moving a bird to another area may cause it to fight with the current occupants or just fly back using its excellent sense of direction. Most problems are short-term and can be resolved with tolerance or a few small changes. Learning about raptors is the best way to understand how to live with them.

To prevent further problems:

Avoid feeding doves and pigeons; feeding can attract large numbers of doves and pigeons, many with diseases that raptors catch when they eat the smaller birds or feed them to their young. Keep in mind that bird feeders can attract raptors because raptor prey, including birds and rodents, are attracted to bird feeders.
Feed pets indoors.
Accompany small pets outdoors, especially during the winter raptor migration months of September through April.
If small pets or other domestic animals are left outside unattended, keep them in a sturdy enclosure with a roof.
Report electrocutions to the local Game and Fish office and local electric companies.
Remove nests or their support structures only when necessary and if they do not contain eggs or nestlings. Doing so otherwise is a violation of federal and state laws.
Cover reflective windows with non-reflective cellophane, screen or a similar material to prevent raptors and other birds from crashing into them.
Appreciate raptors for their natural ability to control rodents.
Look for products that can be used as helpful animal deterrents.
Possible Health Concerns
Raptors generally do not have major disease outbreaks because of their solitary nature; most diseases are likely to have been carried by the prey they ate.

Trichomoniasis - Raptors can become sick with trichomoniasis after eating infected doves or pigeons. The Trichomonas protozoa cause painful lesions in the mouth and throat area or in other organs, and can cause deformities, swelling and death. Nestlings are especially susceptible. Trich is treatable, but the medicine is expensive and not widely available. The disease is best prevented by not feeding birds or using birdbaths where birds can congregate and pass the disease from one to another.
West Nile Virus - This disease is passed to birds by mosquitoes and is fatal in most birds, but has not been thoroughly studied.
Aspergillosis – This is the most frequent fungal infection in birds and is commonly transmitted through the inhalation of fungal spores. Birds under high stress with lowered immune systems are most susceptible. Asper accumulates in the lungs and air sacs until lowered immune systems or stress triggers the chronic and often fatal disease.
Laws and Policies

It is illegal to harm, trap, kill or harass raptors, according to federal and state laws. However, certain Commission rules allow for the take of raptors for falconry with the proper permit.
Raptors are protected by the federal Migratory Bird Treaty Act, which makes it illegal to kill, trap, possess, trade, sell or harm them. Raptors are also protected by the Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act, the Lacey Act, the Airborne Hunting Act, and the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Flora and Fauna.
Licensees must also obtain the proper permits from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Migratory Bird Permit Office. The Arizona Game and Fish Department issues licenses to qualified individuals for falconry, wildlife rehabilitation, education, and humane holding. http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/urban_raptors.shtml

These birds keep many bird and rodent populations under control, and some people rely on them to capture their food for them. Birds of prey aren't really what you would call killing material. Nobody eats and fancies raptor flesh, so the only reason they are killed is because they are regarded as pests to farm animals, etc. Birds of prey were being killed in the masses, many were being threatened and endangered, by killing, DDT, and so forth, so to prevent many raptors from dying out, they were protected. Besides, how could you kill a bald eagle, the symbol of the U.S.?
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vegetarian
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New research has shown that people do not need to eat meat to live. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05zhL1YUd8Q
Edited by vegetarian, Jul 2 2014, 02:14 AM.
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vegetarian
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32IDVdgmzKA See how tortured animals in slaughterhouses and at breeders
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Canadianwildlife
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vegetarian
Jul 2 2014, 02:13 AM
New research has shown that people do not need to eat meat to live. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05zhL1YUd8Q
I do! lol I love meat, and don't you dare take it away from me! Meat has protein and iron, which are good for you, but yes I suppose that study is true. Oh how boring and tasteless life would be without meat.  :'(
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vegetarian
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Canadianwildlife
Jul 2 2014, 02:16 AM
vegetarian
Jul 2 2014, 02:13 AM
New research has shown that people do not need to eat meat to live. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05zhL1YUd8Q
I do! lol I love meat, and don't you dare take it away from me! Meat has protein and iron, which are good for you, but yes I suppose that study is true. Oh how boring and tasteless life would be without meat.  :'(
f k y u
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vegetarian
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Canadianwildlife
Jul 2 2014, 02:16 AM
vegetarian
Jul 2 2014, 02:13 AM
New research has shown that people do not need to eat meat to live. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05zhL1YUd8Q
I do! lol I love meat, and don't you dare take it away from me! Meat has protein and iron, which are good for you, but yes I suppose that study is true. Oh how boring and tasteless life would be without meat.  :'(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32IDVdgmzKA
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Canadianwildlife
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vegetarian
Jul 2 2014, 02:36 AM
Canadianwildlife
Jul 2 2014, 02:16 AM
vegetarian
Jul 2 2014, 02:13 AM
New research has shown that people do not need to eat meat to live. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05zhL1YUd8Q
I do! lol I love meat, and don't you dare take it away from me! Meat has protein and iron, which are good for you, but yes I suppose that study is true. Oh how boring and tasteless life would be without meat.  :'(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32IDVdgmzKA
I'm not feeling the love. Humans come first, but they could be more humane the way they treat the animals.
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vegetarian
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Canadianwildlife
Jul 2 2014, 02:16 AM
vegetarian
Jul 2 2014, 02:13 AM
New research has shown that people do not need to eat meat to live. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05zhL1YUd8Q
I do! lol I love meat, and don't you dare take it away from me! Meat has protein and iron, which are good for you, but yes I suppose that study is true. Oh how boring and tasteless life would be without meat.  :'(
Why not try to eat people, tastes like chicken
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Canadianwildlife
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vegetarian
Jul 2 2014, 02:39 AM
Canadianwildlife
Jul 2 2014, 02:16 AM
vegetarian
Jul 2 2014, 02:13 AM
New research has shown that people do not need to eat meat to live. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05zhL1YUd8Q
I do! lol I love meat, and don't you dare take it away from me! Meat has protein and iron, which are good for you, but yes I suppose that study is true. Oh how boring and tasteless life would be without meat.  :'(
Why not try to eat people, tastes like chicken
So you want me to eat you then? I value humans more than animals, but I'm under the belief that animals should be respected, taken care of, and cherished, but not nearly to the level a human should receive. Humans are under the responsobility of taking care of the earth and its inhabitants, that being the animals, so by overexcessive killing, polluting, and destroying of habitats, we are not taking care or properly maintaining the earth. But I believe humans are more important than animals, so that means that I value you more than an animal. You have great worth and value, as does every human being on the face of the earth.
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Palaeogirl
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Even total veganism has its problems. While you aren't keeping a lot of animals in seriously deplorable conditions, you do have to contend with there being practically no grazers in all North America capable of regulating plant growth like livestock does now.

While I do feel bad for livestock I also feel like we do have a right to utilize them as we please since they are creations of mankind anyway. I wish conditions were better for livestock but in the end I can't really argue much against using them since they wouldn't even exist without our influence.

I'm pretty much the opposite view there, I value the life of non-humans a lot more than that of humans. We're the only species that does things we'd consider evil (infanticide, rape, murder, etc) for no reason other than entertainment or entirely artifical gain like having more money which, in the end, doesn't even mean anything other than what we all agree it to mean. Lions kill cubs to gain breeding rights with the females, a lot of sex in non-humans is rape and this leads to the strongest males breeding the most often, murder is common in pretty much every species since it removes a competitor and can supply the murderer with food. Humans, on the other hand, will rape, kill, and steal simply because they feel like it. Sometimes they don't even gain anything, they just do it to see how it feels. On top of that we have, generally speaking, no respect for our planet and the other species we share it with. We just live off the assumption that we're inherently superior despite having no real reasons to think so that aren't horribly biased.
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Canadianwildlife
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Palaeogirl
Jul 2 2014, 03:03 AM
Even total veganism has its problems. While you aren't keeping a lot of animals in seriously deplorable conditions, you do have to contend with there being practically no grazers in all North America capable of regulating plant growth like livestock does now.

While I do feel bad for livestock I also feel like we do have a right to utilize them as we please since they are creations of mankind anyway. I wish conditions were better for livestock but in the end I can't really argue much against using them since they wouldn't even exist without our influence.

I'm pretty much the opposite view there, I value the life of non-humans a lot more than that of humans. We're the only species that does things we'd consider evil (infanticide, rape, murder, etc) for no reason other than entertainment or entirely artifical gain like having more money which, in the end, doesn't even mean anything other than what we all agree it to mean. Lions kill cubs to gain breeding rights with the females, a lot of sex in non-humans is rape and this leads to the strongest males breeding the most often, murder is common in pretty much every species since it removes a competitor and can supply the murderer with food. Humans, on the other hand, will rape, kill, and steal simply because they feel like it. Sometimes they don't even gain anything, they just do it to see how it feels. On top of that we have, generally speaking, no respect for our planet and the other species we share it with. We just live off the assumption that we're inherently superior despite having no real reasons to think so that aren't horribly biased.
And that is all the result of sin, since the fall of mankind since the Garden of Eden. I know you don't believe that, we don't agree, but we both know where we both stand. Mans wikkedness is the result of sin. Animals kill other animals for food as the result of sin. We aren't offending each other here, just telling each other what we believe, nothing more.
Edited by Canadianwildlife, Jul 2 2014, 03:21 AM.
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Palaeogirl
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Happy we can share it without arguing :)
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Canadianwildlife
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Palaeogirl
Jul 2 2014, 03:27 AM
Happy we can share it without arguing :)
It would be off-topic anyway. ;)
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Troodon
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I am not against hunting for food, since predators hunt their prey all the time in nature. I actually think it's understandable to be against farms and supermarkets (since no other predator domesticates their prey and slaughters them in factories), but I really don't see any moral reason why hunting is bad. Predators hunt all the time; it's a natural part of life.

However, I only think hunting for food is okay. Hunting for money, clothing, or pleasure is bad. And of course, endangered species should never be hunted at all, no matter what.

From an animal rights perspective, hunting is perfectly fine (in my opinion). I think animal rights activists should focus more on improving living conditions for animals in farms.
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vegetarian
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Troodon
Jul 2 2014, 03:11 PM
I am not against hunting for food, since predators hunt their prey all the time in nature. I actually think it's understandable to be against farms and supermarkets (since no other predator domesticates their prey and slaughters them in factories), but I really don't see any moral reason why hunting is bad. Predators hunt all the time; it's a natural part of life.

However, I only think hunting for food is okay. Hunting for money, clothing, or pleasure is bad. And of course, endangered species should never be hunted at all, no matter what.

From an animal rights perspective, hunting is perfectly fine (in my opinion). I think animal rights activists should focus more on improving living conditions for animals in farms.
animals that kill other animals to eat them do so because they can not eat anything other than meat. people can eat something else, but people prefer to kill animals for food. why?
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