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Snow leopard kills 2-3 wolves in battle with a pack of wolves
Topic Started: Aug 4 2014, 03:32 AM (7,933 Views)
Vodmeister
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Molosser
Mar 25 2015, 07:36 PM
The size of the snow leopard is unknown and sane goes for the wolves. Besides I'm beginning to doubt the credibility of these accounts after that garbage about snow leopards killing adult bull camels singlehandedly. as if I'm gonna believe a 50 kg cat can kill a 400+ kg camel
nothing but garbage and fairy tales.
A 50 kg leopard can kill a 400 kg zebra. A 50 kg cougar can kill a 400 kg elk. A 225 kg tiger can kill a 2000 kg female Asian elephant. What is so absurd about a 50 kg big cat killing a 400 kg camel?
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Molosser
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We have a lion vs camel thread. If you think this cat is as capable as a lion I'd be interested in hearing how on earth is that possible?
Also a 50 kg leopard isn't killing a 400 kg zebra stallion (we have a lioness vs zebra thread) nor is a 50 kg cougar killing a 400 kg elk. that's wishful fanboy imho
Edited by Molosser, Mar 26 2015, 02:20 AM.
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Full Throttle
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Molosser
Mar 26 2015, 02:18 AM
We have a lion vs camel thread. If you think this cat is as capable as a lion I'd be interested in hearing how on earth is that possible?
Also a 50 kg leopard isn't killing a 400 kg zebra stallion (we have a lioness vs zebra thread) nor is a 50 kg cougar killing a 400 kg elk. that's wishful fanboy imho
Leopard predation on adult camel:

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""A leopard in Touran reserve feeding on camel he hunted the night before."

Cougar predation on adult elk:

"Cougars killed relatively more bull elk (0.74) than did wolves (0.48)".

http://www.greateryellowstonescience.org/node/2961

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Bull elk kill by cougar.

Just for some clarification, a mature bull elk in Yellowstone weighs 320 to 331 kg, cougars from the same region are 72 kg at there largest.

Adult Dromedaries range from 300-540 kg, males 400-600, the size disparity between these two felids and these two respective prey items are quite extreme, they even tackle these massive prey items with greater frequency than the two pack hunting carnivores they share range with.

I have no issue in believing a snow leopard is capable of bringing down a yak, large cats are incredible creatures.

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ManEater
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Shin
Mar 26 2015, 01:01 AM
uhhh....the snow leopard may arguably be lbs for lbs stronger than both
the cougar & leopard...it takes tremendous physical strength, dexterity & explosiveness
to move with THAT type of consistent, effortless & extreme agility...
With such an affirmation, you need to prove it, and not with unquantifiable sentences.
Because it takes tremendous physical strength to do this too:

Posted Image

Posted Image


At same size/weight, a leopard will have a more formidable skull and teeth.
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Shin
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ManEater
Mar 26 2015, 04:50 AM
Shin
Mar 26 2015, 01:01 AM
uhhh....the snow leopard may arguably be lbs for lbs stronger than both
the cougar & leopard...it takes tremendous physical strength, dexterity & explosiveness
to move with THAT type of consistent, effortless & extreme agility...
With such an affirmation, you need to prove it, and not with unquantifiable sentences.
Because it takes tremendous physical strength to do this too:

Posted Image

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At same size/weight, a leopard will have a more formidable skull and teeth.
the proof is in the environment of the SL. Arboreal
mammalian predators can rely on their claws anchoring
into the tree trunk...the snow leopard is scaling near
vertical ROCK surfaces-not only that, its doing 360 degree barrel
rolls off the these structures for sheer amusement...this implies
that under real stress the SL is capable of more extreme feats.
I had always read about the SL superior jumping ability-superior to even the
cougar, but was never able to witness it until recent videos like this; but
I am only recently getting a broader scope of their true
potential, thanks to the footage of them. There climbing ability is what
tips the scales for me...it is exceptionally more difficult to scale a
rock wall, than to climb a tree.

I am not saying leopards aren't exceptionally powerful; but the
SL has just exhibited physical capabilities that significantly exceeds
other medium & large felines, by far.


here's another jumping exploit
Edited by Shin, Mar 26 2015, 06:13 AM.
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ManEater
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Like said above, you prove nothing (no offense), and you're talking about agility feats more than strength feats.

Look what a tom leopard can do in a tree:

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Shin
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ManEater
Mar 26 2015, 06:20 AM
Like said above, you prove nothing (no offense), and you're talking about agility feats more than strength feats.

Look what a tom leopard can do in a tree:




You don't seem to understand the extra strength
it takes for an animal of that mass to move
like that. This isn't a clouded leopard...it
is a creature which is similar in mass to p.pardus;
though slightly smaller, they overlap in weight.

The snow leopard is displaying movements
far beyond anything you will ever see in
a leopard or cougar...and I've seen a wide
array of both leopard/cougar footage of them
displaying there agility/strength.

The jump from the tree from the leopard was impressive,
but it is in the same context as the snow leopards feat-but
it is far inferior. The SL exhibited a higher degree of control,
coordination by doing what it does on steep Mt. Cliffs.


I notice the SL also has that mechanism that the clouded
leopard & jaguar also have in there lumbar vertebrae.
It gives mammalian carnivores a significant advantage
in climbing AND in jumping. P. Parus does not
have this function in its vertebrae nor does p.concolor.

I DO study morphology so it is just a simple matter of me doing the research
to find the 'paper work' to satisfy your skepticism.The point is, I don't
need such data to quantify what I can see with my own eyes, but
for the sake of my own 'forum integrity' I will provide such documents.




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ManEater
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Shin
Mar 26 2015, 07:48 AM
You don't seem to understand the extra strength
it takes for an animal of that mass to move
like that. This isn't a clouded leopard...it
is a creature which is similar in mass to p.pardus;
though slightly smaller, they overlap in weight.

The snow leopard is displaying movements
far beyond anything you will ever see in
a leopard or cougar...and I've seen a wide
array of both leopard/cougar footage of them
displaying there agility/strength.

The jump from the tree from the leopard was impressive,
but it is in the same context as the snow leopards feat-but
it is far inferior. The SL exhibited a higher degree of control,
coordination by doing what it does on steep Mt. Cliffs.


I notice the SL also has that mechanism that the clouded
leopard & jaguar also have in there lumbar vertebrae.
It gives mammalian carnivores a significant advantage
in climbing AND in jumping. P. Parus does not
have this function in its vertebrae nor does p.concolor.

I DO study morphology so it is just a simple matter of me doing the research
to find the 'paper work' to satisfy your skepticism.The point is, I don't
need such data to quantify what I can see with my own eyes, but
for the sake of my own 'forum integrity' I will provide such documents.



You don't seem to understand it is just your opinion, not a fact, where are the proofs ?
I would like to see your studies proving that snow leopards are lbs for lbs stronger than leopards or cougars,i am waiting.

It seems to me that you confuse agility and strength since the beginning, it is the light weight and gracile built (=/= weak, they are muscular of course but far from massive) who gives the SL his tremendous agility.


Last thing, SL and leopards aren't similar in weight by a good margin, only with little leopard subspecies.

Posted Image

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Edited by ManEater, Mar 26 2015, 08:39 AM.
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Shin
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and my opinions are based on facts. While
you try to shift the focus to agility soley, you
don't seem to understand that jumping ability
is a great indicator of strength...the SL is
the greatest leaper in all of the cat family...

And-SL & P.Pardus are very similar in weights, seeing as how males can
get up to 120lbs and many adult male leopards are not much bigger than that;
with Cape leopard being smaller than SL...yeah-thats a pretty solid overlap-the leopard
growing larger...

As I already stated-I will post sources backing
up my observations & insights...
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Vodmeister
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Molosser
Mar 26 2015, 02:18 AM
We have a lion vs camel thread. If you think this cat is as capable as a lion I'd be interested in hearing how on earth is that possible?
Terrific argument!

We also have a Snow Leopard vs Dire Wolf thread. In that case, Leopard vs Dire Wolf can only result in the Leopard being the clear winner. After all, how else could an inferior feline species like the Snow Leopard be pitted against the Dire Wolf?

Quote:
 
Also a 50 kg leopard isn't killing a 400 kg zebra stallion (we have a lioness vs zebra thread)

Again, this sort of reasoning is terrible.

Full Throttle has already posted images and accounts of Leopard predation on camels (who are no smaller nor less formidable than zebras).

Posted Image

Quote:
 
nor is a 50 kg cougar killing a 400 kg elk. that's wishful fanboy imho

"Here is your Monday morning video. In this one F109 visits a kill site from F61. The main feature of this clip is near the end when F109 performs a scrape with her hind feet. Cougars scrape to communicate their presence, breeding status, fitness/dominance and more. It is a fascinating behavior that deserves further study. F109 by the way is an impressive cat - she only weighs 88 pounds and hunts ~600 pound bull elk. She is also the only cat in our study to ever kill a wolf."
http://carnivoraforum.com/single/?p=8731977&t=9333980

88 lbs (40 kg) to 600 lbs (273 kg) size ratio not far off 50 kg to 400 kg (6.8 as opposed to 8.0), and remember, we are talking about a female cat feline, not a male feline.

If an 88 lbs cougar can kill a 600 lbs bull elk, I don't see the problem with a 110 lbs snow leopard killing a plus 800 lbs camel.
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Sleipnir
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Vodmeister is that leopard not scavenging the camel?
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ManEater
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Shin
Mar 26 2015, 09:59 AM
and my opinions are based on facts. While
you try to shift the focus to agility soley, you
don't seem to understand that jumping ability
is a great indicator of strength...the SL is
the greatest leaper in all of the cat family...

And-SL & P.Pardus are very similar in weights, seeing as how males can
get up to 120lbs and many adult male leopards are not much bigger than that;
with Cape leopard being smaller than SL...yeah-thats a pretty solid overlap-the leopard
growing larger...

As I already stated-I will post sources backing
up my observations & insights...
I don't even understand why you answer giving the fact you repeating the same thing at each post without the shadow of an argument or a proof.
Your opinion is based on facts ? Great, but i would like to show them, so i will wait for your very clear datas who will stating this.

Agility is a mix of light build/muscle, but not pure strength so is absolutely not an indicator.
I'm sure there is more strength in an animal who carry another one, of his weight or more, in a tree than one who is jumping vertically. (not a fact, an opinion, you see ?)

PS: Before saying SL/leopard are the same weight, you should earn some knowledge on leopard average weight (india, africa, sri lanka, persian etc), to avoid you to say such nonsense.
In fact if i follow your reasoning, so a SL is stronger than a typical savanna leopard, for you they are nearly the same weight, and SL is stronger lbs for lbs, do you understand your mistake ?



Equus Dreadnoughtus: it is written in the link, yes.
Edited by ManEater, Mar 26 2015, 10:46 AM.
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Vodmeister
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Equus Dreadnoughtus
Mar 26 2015, 10:28 AM
Vodmeister is that leopard not scavenging the camel?
According to FT's post:

""A leopard in Touran reserve feeding on camel he hunted the night before."

Emphasis on: "he hunted the night before"

Anyway, needless to say, the only purpose of my post was to show that big cats are capable of predation on herbivores MUCH larger than themselves.
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Sleipnir
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If an Asiatic Cheetah can do it, why not a SL?

http://www.cacp.ir/newsletters/No%202%20Eng.pdf
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Irbis
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Snow leopard is closer by weight the some subspecies of leopard for example javan leopard, cape leopard, arabian leopard and amur leopard. On 5.40 min on this video you can see how snow leopard go up on the rocks with his prey

Snow leopard and other cat species often kill a prey in a night time. May be yaks, camels, horses eyes do not see at Night, as good as cats and the prey do not know what to do to defend the attack of big cat.. And cats use this fact to kill them.
In this video you can compare snow leopard cub with javan leopard cubs, snow leopard one day older

Snow leopard and leopard skull comparison (photos taken by me). As you see these skulls very close in size. Snow leopard skull looks more massive ( higher and broader). Snow leopard nasal cavity is bigger than leopard, it is adaptation to high mountain habitat.
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Incredible snow leopard jump))

Snow leopards can jump like flying squirrel (photos taken by me)
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Edited by Irbis, Mar 28 2015, 11:11 PM.
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