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Rethinking that Leopards can beat Hyenas..can they really?
Topic Started: Aug 23 2014, 12:50 AM (16,244 Views)
chui
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Grazier
 
There's a reason a forfeit counts as a loss in fighting, it's because otherwise you can just forfeit every fight until you're sure you're gonna win and then fabricate a perfect unbeaten record.

That's exactly what the leopard has done with the hyena. Of course it "can" beat a hyena, potentially, it has done a few times, but it's not more likely to win, it loses all the time, nearly every time, by forfeit, the most shameful of all ways to lose. Lol, now I'm trolling a little, but seriously the way I see it a forfeit has to be notched up as a loss, you can't reward cherry picking matches with a clean record.


Grazier
Jan 13 2017, 11:59 PM
That aligns with what I've seen too. I mean I'm not saying a leopard can't ambush a hyena, just that face to face hyenas don't hesitate to go for them and leopards don't hesitate to run away.


Well reading your posts you clearly haven’t seen (or read) much on the subject. The fact you do not differentiate between male and female leopards is a very obvious indicator of this. In case you aren’t aware, leopards unlike spotted hyenas are highly sexually dimorphic species (the most extreme among the big cats along with the lion). A fully mature male in many regions will on average be twice the weight of an adult female and their skulls along with simply being bigger are also very differently proportioned (again more so than the other big cats). The 2 sexes are clearly the product of very different selection pressures and not surprisingly the difference in morphology is also accompanied by a difference in behaviour. A proper assessment of the relationship between leopards and spotted hyenas is therefore incomplete without acknowledging this crucial point. Just as we must rightfully acknowledge the male baboon as an animal of much higher calibre than the more numerous females, we must do the same for the male leopard.

The problem seems to be that a lot of people’s perception is based on having grown up watching documentary films which are often very misleading. They are frequently composed of fabricated stories with a bunch of clips (often not even showing the same individual animal) put together to construct overly simplified scenarios of the African savanna. When it comes to the leopard/hyena relationship you have– leopard kills prey it must then get it up a tree quickly or else a hyena will come chase it off. Usually the being chased of the kill part is a clip of a female or young leopard and it’s probably the same couple of clips being recycled in various documentaries you’ve seen. If this is your main source of knowledge of the animal world than you have some serious catching up to do. Even the better nature programs which showed more genuine interactions still provided a skewed perspective since they mostly focus on female leopards, the typical story line of a leopard documentary revolves around a leopard mother trying to raise her cubs. Take the Big Cat Diary series for example which ran for over a decade and was of particularly high quality as it purely showed genuine behaviour and no fabricated story lines. However, in all its time it pretty much exclusively focused on the female leopards of the Masai Mara, the adult male leopards of the region were hardly ever shown at all. Though the greater emphasis on females may simply be done for a more interesting story (mother with her cubs as opposed to just a solitary male walking around) there are a couple of other reasons why this has been the case. Firstly, dominant male leopards are less likely to be observed on the simple basis that they are a minority, in any given population of subadult/adult leopards, full grown males (7years and older) will represent less than 10%. Secondly and more importantly, male leopards occupy much bigger territories than females and are more mobile with their constant patrolling and marking, thus much more difficult for a filming crew to track and follow. Luckily, over the past 10 years or so this has changed as we have had considerably more footage of wild leopards come about thanks to online safari blogs particularly from southern Africa which provide us with constant updates of wildlife sightings in the various game reserves. And looking at actual genuine interactions which have been filmed or documented, the idea that lone spotted hyenas dominate adult male leopards with any regularity is simply not supported.

To illustrate my point here is a good example of a typical mishmash of clips documentary, “Africa’s Super Seven”. Filmed in South Africa’s Mala Mala reserve, it supposedly follows a day in the life of 7 big animals of the region including what is suppose to be a ‘male leopard’. However, it quickly becomes apparent that the leopard shown is actually a bunch of different individuals, much of the footage is clearly of females. This is particularly obvious for this documentary as the leopards of Mala Mala are very well observed with their online blog providing regular updates of all the resident individuals there for the past 10-15 years. Most of the dominant males are easily recognizable to those who follow these blogs. In one part from this particular documentary the supposed male leopard takes down an impala but then loses it to a hyena without much of a fuss. It is however pretty obvious to anyone familiar with leopards, the individual in that footage is in fact a female leopard. Watch from 28:00 onwards (also note- the leopard at 28:30 is a different individual from the one at 29:00).



Kim Wolhuter who closely followed the leopards of Mala Mala for a number of years provided us with much better documentaries from the same location. In Predators at War which also follows the predators of the region, the footage of the male leopard is genuine and not a mishmash of bunch of different individuals. In this scene, the male leopard (Tjololo) is feeding with his mate as hyenas approach, the female quickly flees but Tjololo doesn’t budge until he’s outnumbered. Tjololo, a well known individual was by the way a relatively small male leopard.



The spotted hyena is no doubt a formidable adversary for a male leopard and I’m not going to argue that male leopards go around thrashing these formidable predators. In terms of weight, adult spotted hyenas (both male and female) will on average be around equal or slightly bigger than adult male leopards (around 60-65kg) they coexist with in much of the southern African woodland savanna habitat where the vast majority of their interactions are recorded. Thus physically neither quite has the physical advantage to convincingly dominate the other with consistency. And based on all I have seen and read this is what the recorded interactions seem to suggest. In the context of kills/scavenging, sometimes a lone hyena may be able to chase a male leopard off his kill but more frequently the latter will only relinquish the kill when outnumbered. Conversely, male leopards may also sometimes appropriate kills from lone hyenas or defend their own kills from small groups. I would note that the relationship between the two is likely to vary across Africa. In the Miombo woodland habitat north of the Zambezi river which spans across eastern Zambia, northern Mozambique, and southern Tanzania, the male leopards are much smaller than the spotted hyenas (on average 45kg vs 69kg). Thus in this environment I would not expect male leopards to put up much resistance against even lone hyenas.

Also, for those who seem to think it is exceptional for a male leopard to stand up to a hyena, the observations and opinions of those with years of experience in the field (not just watching fabricated documentaries) may be of some relevance. The following are excerpts from a few firsthand sources who are certainly in a position to comment on the subject of leopards/spotted hyenas and who clearly do not share your opinion. In fact, some of them I think may actually be a little unfair to the hyena. For example, Luke Hunter states that leopards appropriate kills from competitively inferior predators such as lone spotted hyenas. I wouldn’t completely agree with this but Luke Hunter is a leading scientific authority on African felids and African carnivores in general. So his opinion can’t be so easily dismissed but I suspect he was specifically referring to male leopards in that statement. Also I am aware there are other experienced observes who state otherwise. For example, Margie Mills who studied hyenas in the Kalahari states that in her experience lone spotted hyenas dominate leopards (presumably both males and females). Which contrasts with the experience of Bothma and Le Riche who reported that male leopards will defend their kills from upto 2 spotted hyenas in the Kalahari. Thus there appears to be some difference of opinion on the matter probably arising from individual variation in both species and different circumstances involved and so forth. But this further illustrates that this is not a black and white relationship as some are trying to paint it as.

Excerpt from Jonathan Scott’s book, Big Cat Diary: Leopard 2006. Scott of course was the main host on the Big Cat Diary series and has followed the big cats of Kenya’s Masai Mara since the 1970s.
“Though female leopards rarely put up much resistance when confronted by a hyena, male leopards are larger, more aggressive and less likely to be intimidated, growling rather than hissing at hyenas and more than able to hold their own in a one-on-one encounter.”

Ted Bailey studied the leopards in the Kruger NP in the 1970s. He states the following in his book, The African Leopard- Ecology and Behavior of a Solitary Felid 1993.
“Single hyenas were reluctant to confront an adult leopard, but two or more hyenas appeared more than a match for a single leopard. A single hyena that once took the kill from a leopard probably weighed 45kg compared to 29kg for the leopard....
Hyenas often rested directly under or near kills cached by leopards when leopards were not feeding. I often startled resting hyenas when I approached such kills on foot. The approach of a leopard to its kill was often indicated by the sudden alertness or disappearance of attendant hyenas. As far I could determine, hyenas never prevented leopards from feeding on kills they had cashed in trees.”


From the paper, Aspects of the ecology and the behaviour of the Leopard Panthera pardus in the Kalahari desert 1984 by Bothma and Le Riche.
“Interaction with other Carnivores
Black-backed jackals Canis mesomelas may follow leopards and are sometimes killed and eaten as a result of this. Brown hyaenas at times also follow the tracks of leopards. Jackals and brown hyaenas do so to scavenge from the leopard kills. A spotted hyaena once drove a female leopard away from her kill, but on at least two known occasions larger male leopards successfully defended kills against two spotted hyaenas. Two adult lions also once took away the prey of a large male leopard."


Luke Hunter has studied African wild cats for over 2 decades and can be considered a leading authority on big cats. In Mammals of Africa 2013, his observations on the scavenging behaviour of leopards are noted as follows.
“Scavenging occurs; males sometimes usurp kills from females (G.A. Balme pers. Obs.) and Leopards appropriate kills from competitively inferior carnivores such as Cheetahs, lone Spotted Hyaenas and jackals (Hunter 1998a, L.T.B. Hunter pers. Obs.).”

Trevor Carnaby, a field guide who’s worked in a few different game reserves in southern Africa states the following in his book.
“Spotted hyaenas are the largest hyaenas and, on average, second only to the lion in weight (the largest leopard males can be heavier). The fact that they are often sociable also makes them formidable. Wild dogs, though, through better co-ordination and organisation as a pack unit, will often put hyaenas to flight. Although leopard will not go out of their way to attack solitary hyaena, lone spotties are wary of them (particularly large leopard males).”
Edited by chui, Jan 19 2017, 09:53 PM.
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animalkingdom
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Male leopard vs hyena
personally i will give hyena little advantage over big male leopard.
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chui
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animalkingdom
Jan 19 2017, 12:51 AM
Male leopard vs hyena
personally i will give hyena little advantage over big male leopard.


The leopard in your video is not an adult male. It might be a subadult male or a female but hard to be clear. Here is the original video from the safari lodge where this was filmed- it doesn't say the leopard was a male, that was just added by which ever random person reuploaded the video. But in any case, good effort by the persistent little leopard in taking on the much bigger hyena. Like I've already said spotted hyenas can sometimes dominate adult male leopards in one on one encounters but not with any consistency.



Adult male leopard are characterized by an overall masculine appearance with a well developed head, neck and shoulders. Once fully mature they also have a pronounced dewlap which makes them further distinguishable from females.

Applicability of Age-Based Hunting Regulations for African Leopards
Such marked size dimorphism extends to the cranial morphology (males have longer and broader skulls than females), body length, neck circumference, chest girth, and shoulder height of leopards (Table S3). Although it is difficult to gauge body size from photographs, the relative dimensions are clearly apparent. Our survey showed that almost all respondents could differentiate mature (≥4 years) male leopards from females. In contrast, there was considerable confusion in distinguishing females from <2 year old males. At this age, male leopards superficially resemble females; they are a similar size (Table S3) and lack many of the distinctive features of adult males (e.g. well-developed chest and neck musculature, a prominent dewlap, etc.).

Posted Image
Edited by chui, Aug 30 2017, 04:19 AM.
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Cat
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SquamataOrthoptera
Nov 26 2016, 07:14 AM
KingPanthera
Nov 26 2016, 06:21 AM
SETA222
Nov 26 2016, 02:44 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
what the hell???

yes that it... a leopard killing and carrying a 1 ton bulleland is not good?

so how the tiger is stronger than the leopard?

i am not such a stuipd kid... i know what i am talking
the body to neck to head ratio is far stronger than the tiger
the tiger is around the strengh of a puma
Evidence of Leopards pulling 1 TON Animals up trese? Becaues i find it doubtful it carries bull Elands up trees. And Bull Elands dont weight a ton.
There is no evidence because it's a physical impossibility. Jeez, I like cats but some statements are beyond any ounce of common sense. I have seen plenty of videos of leopards struggling to carry up trees preys that likely weren't as heavy as themselves. There may be strong individuals that can lift preys heavier than themselves, but I doubt they can lift a prey double their own weight, as it is often claimed. If it has ever happened it must be an exception, because otherwise the leopards in the videos wouldn't have had trouble lifting the preys shown. It is still a very impressive feat. Leopards however, like any other animals, aren't supernatural beings.
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Ceratodromeus
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Adult male eland due actually weigh a ton if not a little over that.
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Vivyx
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I'm quite disappointed by the amount of times that I've seen people ignoring hard evidence by others that refutes their preconceived judgement and still continue to make claims about this subject based solely on their own opinion.
Edited by Vivyx, Apr 12 2017, 08:18 AM.
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SETA222
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Quote:
 
Adult male eland due actually weigh a ton if not a little over that.

" The eland is the second largest
African antelope, with males being larger than females (Underwood
1979). Shoulder height averages 163 cm (range, 151–183 cm; no
sample size given) for males and 142 cm (range, 125–153 cm; no
sample size given) for females. Body mass averages 500–600 kg
(range, 450–942 kg; no sample size given) for males and 340–445
kg (range 317–470 kg; no sample size given) for females (Estes
1991).
"
http://www.science.smith.edu/msi/pdf/689_Taurotragus_oryx.pdf

Though, as said, there was no size sample. Do you have any size sample for it?
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Ceratodromeus
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I misspoke, half a ton is an average adult eland. I don't, but i will look into the matter.
Edited by Ceratodromeus, Feb 13 2017, 11:10 AM.
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Canidae man
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Well, the hyena is bigger, faster and has a stronger bite. The only reason a Leopard wins in reality is because they're brave and end up chasing the hyena away. In a true fight, it would be close, so I'm still clueless of who would wim
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Mammuthus
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Canidae man
Feb 14 2017, 02:36 AM
Well, the hyena is bigger, faster and has a stronger bite.
Care to explain why speed will have an impact in conflict between a Hyena and Leopard.
Edited by Mammuthus, Feb 14 2017, 02:45 AM.
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Grazier
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Mammuthus
Feb 14 2017, 02:45 AM
Canidae man
Feb 14 2017, 02:36 AM
Well, the hyena is bigger, faster and has a stronger bite.
Care to explain why speed will have an impact in conflict between a Hyena and Leopard.
Care to explain why you unflinchingly accept the ludicrous assertion that a hyena is faster than a leopard? Lol.

I'm inclined to favour hyena but faster? That's enormously hilarious and absurd.
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HyperNova
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Well, the hyena is bigger, faster and has a stronger bite.
Do you mean faster in running speed? If so, this is a non-factor in a fight...
Edited by HyperNova, Feb 14 2017, 10:15 AM.
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Ceratodromeus
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Grazier
Feb 14 2017, 08:10 AM
Mammuthus
Feb 14 2017, 02:45 AM
Canidae man
Feb 14 2017, 02:36 AM
Well, the hyena is bigger, faster and has a stronger bite.
Care to explain why speed will have an impact in conflict between a Hyena and Leopard.
Care to explain why you unflinchingly accept the ludicrous assertion that a hyena is faster than a leopard? Lol.

I'm inclined to favour hyena but faster? That's enormously hilarious and absurd.
He didnt, care to elaborate on the fact you're once more posting logical fallacies? The only absurd thing here is incapability to read.
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Grazier
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Care to explain why you have a crush on me?

He did, he accepted when he didn't say "whoa, wtf?" and instead just moved on to asking why speed matters. Let's back up and correct the outright falsehood first.
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