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Barbary Lion v Siberian Tiger
Topic Started: Oct 20 2014, 08:25 PM (31,716 Views)
Taipan
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Barbary Lion - Panthera leo leo
The Barbary lion, sometimes referred to as the Atlas lion, is an African lion population that is considered extinct in the wild and is among the biggest lion subspecies. It is believed that the last Barbary lion was shot in the western Maghreb during the year 1942 near Tizi n'Tichka. The Barbary lion was first described by the Austrian zoologist Johann Nepomuk Meyer under the trinomen Felis leo barbaricus on the basis of a type specimen from Barbary. The Barbary lion was long considered one of the biggest lion subspecies. Museum specimens of male Barbary lion were described as having very dark and long-haired manes that extended over the shoulder and to the belly. Head-to-tail length of stuffed males varies from 2.35 to 2.8 m (7 ft 9 in to 9 ft 2 in), and females measure around 2.5 m (8 ft 2 in). A 19th century hunter described a large male allegedly measuring 3.25 m (10.7 ft) including a 75 cm (30 in) long tail. In some historic accounts the weight of wild males was indicated as very heavy and reaching 270 to 300 kilograms (600 to 660 lb). But the accuracy of the measurements may be questionable, and the sample size of captive Barbary lions were too small to conclude they were the biggest lion subspecies.

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Siberian Tiger - Panthera tigris altaica
The Siberian tiger (Panthera tigris altaica), also known as the Amur tiger, is a tiger subspecies inhabiting mainly the Sikhote Alin mountain region with a small subpopulation in southwest Primorye province in the Russian Far East. In 2005, there were 331–393 adult-subadult Amur tigers in this region, with a breeding adult population of about 250 individuals. The Siberian tiger is reddish-rusty or rusty-yellow in colour, with narrow black transverse stripes. Measurements taken by scientists of the Siberian Tiger Project in Sikhote-Alin range from 178 to 208 cm (70 to 82 in) in head and body length measured in straight line, with an average of 195 cm (77 in) for males; and for females ranging from 167 to 182 cm (66 to 72 in) with an average of 174 cm (69 in). The average tail measures 99 cm (39 in) in males and 91 cm (36 in) in females. The longest male “Maurice” measured 309 cm (122 in) in total length (tail of 101 cm (40 in)) and had a chest girth of 127 cm (50 in). The longest female “Maria Ivanna” measured 270 cm (110 in) in total length (tail of 88 cm (35 in)) and had a chest girth of 108 cm (43 in). These measurements show that the present Amur tiger is longer than the Bengal tiger and the African lion. According to modern research of wild Siberian tigers in Sikhote-Alin, an average adult male of more than 35 months of age weighs 176.4 kg (389 lb), the average asymptotic limit being 222.3 kg (490 lb); an adult tigress weighs 117.9 kg (260 lb). The mean weight of historical Siberian tigers is supposed to be higher: 215.3 kg (475 lb) for male tigers and 137.5 kg (303 lb) for females. In May 2011, a male called “Banzai” weighing 207 kg (460 lb) was radio-collared. This individual is heavier but smaller in size than a previously radio-collared male. The largest male, with largely assured references, measured 350 cm (140 in) "over curves", equivalent to 330 cm (130 in) between pegs. The tail length in fully grown males is about 1 m (39 in). Weights of up to 318 kg (700 lb) have been recorded and exceptionally large males weighing up to 384 kg (850 lb) are mentioned in the literature but, according to Mazák, none of these cases can be confirmed via reliable sources.

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Batman
Oct 20 2014, 04:52 AM
Barbary Lion vs Siberian Tiger.
Edited by Taipan, Dec 23 2016, 11:03 PM.
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Asadas
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KayoP
Oct 22 2014, 01:43 AM
Asadas
Oct 22 2014, 12:45 AM
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He was even bigger than the tigers and his eyes were so intense. (Siberian included) But, for all that, he definitely had an attitude..However, once we was full grown, he stopped. No one wanted to argue with a male lion that was over 650 lbs, so he was sent to Cat Tales park that takes care of exotic animals that are “not wanted” or a “problem”.
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http://www.wawho.com/tigerschool/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Zamba.bmp
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http://amandaelisephotography.wordpress.com/2010/08/13/zamba-the-lion/
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700lb Atlas lion
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http://blogs.ublabs.org/crittercorner/2010/03/11/root-canal-performed-on-lion/
Didn't you just get eaten alive with your false info in yuku? Wouldn't be the first time
Taipan
Oct 21 2014, 07:33 PM
Molosser
Oct 21 2014, 05:42 PM
i'm perfectly aware of the fact that the barbary is heavier and more robust than the african, but from what i know the siberian is also larger and more robust than the bengal



No Siberians have a greater propensity to carry fat than Bengals. The obese captive Siberians are used to provide weight - bad practice.

Science is clearing this nonsense up:

"Exceptionally large individuals were targeted and shot by hunters.[7] An unconfirmed report tells of a male tiger shot in the Sikhote-Alin Mountains in 1950 weighing 384 kg (847 lb) with an estimated length of 3.48 m (11.4 ft). In some cases, captive Siberian tigers reached a body weight of up to 465 kg (1,025 lb), such as the tiger "Jaipur."[8]

Measurements taken by scientists of the Siberian Tiger Project in Sikhote-Alin range from 178 to 208 cm (70 to 82 in) in head and body length measured in straight line, with an average of 195 cm (77 in) for males; and for females ranging from 167 to 182 cm (66 to 72 in) with an average of 174 cm (69 in). The average tail measures 99 cm (39 in) in males and 91 cm (36 in) in females. The longest male measured 309 cm (122 in) in total length (tail of 101 cm (40 in)) and had a chest girth of 127 cm (50 in). The longest female measured 270 cm (110 in) in total length (tail of 88 cm (35 in)) and had a chest girth of 108 cm (43 in). These measurements show that the present Amur tiger is longer than the Bengal tiger and the African lion.[9]

In 2005, a group of Russian, American and Indian zoologists published an analysis of historical and contemporary data on body weights of wild and captive tigers, both female and male across all subspecies. The data used include weights of adult tigers, i.e. those that were older than 35 months of age and were measured in the presence of authors. The results of this analysis indicates that the average historical wild male Siberian tiger weighed 215.3 kg (475 lb) and the female 137.5 kg (303 lb); the contemporary wild male Siberian tiger weighs 176.4 kg (389 lb) on average with an asymptotic limit being 222.3 kg (490 lb); a wild female weighs 117.9 kg (260 lb) on average."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_tiger

Something tiger fans find hard to accept.

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So inhumane and cruel ;; look at that unhealthy 900 lbs tiger. humans are pigs rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes
Beautiful Siberian, genetically engineered captive tiger. In the right conditions it should reach 305 kg.

A captive lion I believe over 800 lbs but not true to its natural size.
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Beautiful big Siberian
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Amur
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Asadas
Oct 22 2014, 02:56 AM
KayoP
Oct 22 2014, 01:43 AM
Asadas
Oct 22 2014, 12:45 AM
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He was even bigger than the tigers and his eyes were so intense. (Siberian included) But, for all that, he definitely had an attitude..However, once we was full grown, he stopped. No one wanted to argue with a male lion that was over 650 lbs, so he was sent to Cat Tales park that takes care of exotic animals that are “not wanted” or a “problem”.
Posted Image
http://www.wawho.com/tigerschool/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Zamba.bmp
Posted Image
http://amandaelisephotography.wordpress.com/2010/08/13/zamba-the-lion/
Posted Image
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700lb Atlas lion
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http://blogs.ublabs.org/crittercorner/2010/03/11/root-canal-performed-on-lion/
Didn't you just get eaten alive with your false info in yuku? Wouldn't be the first time
Taipan
Oct 21 2014, 07:33 PM
Molosser
Oct 21 2014, 05:42 PM
i'm perfectly aware of the fact that the barbary is heavier and more robust than the african, but from what i know the siberian is also larger and more robust than the bengal



No Siberians have a greater propensity to carry fat than Bengals. The obese captive Siberians are used to provide weight - bad practice.

Science is clearing this nonsense up:

"Exceptionally large individuals were targeted and shot by hunters.[7] An unconfirmed report tells of a male tiger shot in the Sikhote-Alin Mountains in 1950 weighing 384 kg (847 lb) with an estimated length of 3.48 m (11.4 ft). In some cases, captive Siberian tigers reached a body weight of up to 465 kg (1,025 lb), such as the tiger "Jaipur."[8]

Measurements taken by scientists of the Siberian Tiger Project in Sikhote-Alin range from 178 to 208 cm (70 to 82 in) in head and body length measured in straight line, with an average of 195 cm (77 in) for males; and for females ranging from 167 to 182 cm (66 to 72 in) with an average of 174 cm (69 in). The average tail measures 99 cm (39 in) in males and 91 cm (36 in) in females. The longest male measured 309 cm (122 in) in total length (tail of 101 cm (40 in)) and had a chest girth of 127 cm (50 in). The longest female measured 270 cm (110 in) in total length (tail of 88 cm (35 in)) and had a chest girth of 108 cm (43 in). These measurements show that the present Amur tiger is longer than the Bengal tiger and the African lion.[9]

In 2005, a group of Russian, American and Indian zoologists published an analysis of historical and contemporary data on body weights of wild and captive tigers, both female and male across all subspecies. The data used include weights of adult tigers, i.e. those that were older than 35 months of age and were measured in the presence of authors. The results of this analysis indicates that the average historical wild male Siberian tiger weighed 215.3 kg (475 lb) and the female 137.5 kg (303 lb); the contemporary wild male Siberian tiger weighs 176.4 kg (389 lb) on average with an asymptotic limit being 222.3 kg (490 lb); a wild female weighs 117.9 kg (260 lb) on average."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_tiger

Something tiger fans find hard to accept.

Posted Image

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So inhumane and cruel ;; look at that unhealthy 900 lbs tiger. humans are pigs rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes
Beautiful Siberian, genetically engineered captive tiger. In the right conditions it should reach 305 kg.

A captive lion I believe over 800 lbs but not true to its natural size.
Posted Image
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Beautiful big Siberian
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Yep. no way a wild lion will ever get that big because lions don't get neutered in the wild (increase in weight)And yes tigers can pack more weight than lions but tigers normally are longer and have bigger upper larger arms and chest (along with other things).

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No way can a healthy African lion or Bengal can get this big. This is a modern ngandong tiger. Around 900 lbs in his prime
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Batman
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That Lion is not 800lbs; that looks to be more a Liger than a Lion.

We have unbias scientific records confirming a Siberian is not bigger than a Bengal; whereas the Barbary was nearly a foot shorter than the African at the Shoulder but much more compact, it NEEDED to be, it's muscular short legs were a compensation to it's higher weight.
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Amur
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Batman
Oct 22 2014, 04:11 AM
That Lion is not 800lbs; that looks to be more a Liger than a Lion.

We have unbias scientific records confirming a Siberian is not bigger than a Bengal; whereas the Barbary was nearly a foot shorter than the African at the Shoulder but much more compact, it NEEDED to be, it's muscular short legs were a compensation to it's higher weight.
And we have NEWER unbias scientific information that the Atlas lion was not as big as once stated. It was closer to the size of an Indian Lion. But you still have people such as ASAD (who has been debunked many times) misinforming people by posting pictures of captive lions with a large mane and claiming them to be Barbary lions. Many lions in zoos are called barbary, mistakenly. If it has a belly mane then it should be a Barbary lion. rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes

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The All-seeing Night
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hey guys. When you send scans of text, can you cite where they're from?
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Taipan
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KayoP
Oct 22 2014, 01:43 AM


So inhumane and cruel ;; look at that unhealthy 900 lbs tiger. humans are pigs rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes


Here's an actual (verified) 1,025 lb tiger - 'Jaipur"

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Yes, humans are pigs rolleyes
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Amur
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Taipan
Oct 22 2014, 02:10 PM
KayoP
Oct 22 2014, 01:43 AM


So inhumane and cruel ;; look at that unhealthy 900 lbs tiger. humans are pigs rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes


Here's an actual (verified) 1,025 lb tiger - 'Jaipur"

Posted Image

Yes, humans are pigs rolleyes
Obesity in captive animals is not limited to only Amur Tigers, you see this often with bears lions and other animals. It also doesn't take the fact that this 900+ lbs 125cm shoulder height Tiger is a healthy yet robust animal. It also has bone structure that is not seen in your everyday Lions.

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Siberians are freaks of nature.








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Edited by Amur, Oct 22 2014, 02:54 PM.
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Asadas
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A neutered lion or tiger will reach over 800 lbs in captivity but have weaker larger bones than those in the wild.

The Siberian tiger is worlds largest cat in Captivity by 100 lbs over Bengal tiger or African lion.

However the chest size of Ngorongoro lions is squal with Siberian tigers per Dr. Packer. And we don't know enough about Atlas lions to come to any conclusion on height based on limited bones we have.

..he Ethiopian lion has a distinctive dark mane and is slightly smaller and more compact than other African lions. Now an analysis of its DNA has revealed the Ethiopian lion is also a distinct breed.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/dna-confirms-ethiopian-lions-are-genetically-distinct-group-8207559.html

Lions in captivity develope belly manes though they are not Atlas, or Cape lions or Persian, and cooler climates higher elevation per Bergmans rule are larger in size.

The lions at Addis are not Atlas lions they reside on opposite sides of the African continent, and have unique DNA.

Atlas lion from cat tales in Washington state does it look short? It weighed between 650- 700 lbs before it passed away last year.

..Dr. Tataryn was chosen to treat the 650-pound lion

http://www.llu.edu/dentistry/news/index.page?story_id=1032
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1wlHi_KK1U&feature=player_embedded

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Amur
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Asadas
Oct 23 2014, 04:09 AM
A neutered lion or tiger will reach over 800 lbs in captivity but have weaker larger bones than those in the wild.

The Siberian tiger is worlds largest cat in Captivity by 100 lbs over Bengal tiger or African lion.

However the chest size of Ngorongoro lions is squal with Siberian tigers per Dr. Packer. And we don't know enough about Atlas lions to come to any conclusion on height based on limited bones we have.

..he Ethiopian lion has a distinctive dark mane and is slightly smaller and more compact than other African lions. Now an analysis of its DNA has revealed the Ethiopian lion is also a distinct breed.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/dna-confirms-ethiopian-lions-are-genetically-distinct-group-8207559.html

Lions in captivity develope belly manes though they are not Atlas, or Cape lions or Persian, and cooler climates higher elevation per Bergmans rule are larger in size.

The lions at Addis are not Atlas lions they reside on opposite sides of the African continent, and have unique DNA.

Atlas lion from cat tales in Washington state does it look short? It weighed between 650- 700 lbs before it passed away last year.

..Dr. Tataryn was chosen to treat the 650-pound lion

http://www.llu.edu/dentistry/news/index.page?story_id=1032
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1wlHi_KK1U&feature=player_embedded

Posted Image
http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8109000/8109945.stm


Quote:
 
"There is strong circumstantial evidence, therefore, that the animals at Rabat zoo were a relic from the original Barbary lions collected from the wild," says Black.

However, the possibility that some Barbary lions survive, and they may be the last remnants of a lost subspecies of lion, has become an extremely marketable concept.

"It is not uncommon for zoos to advertise [that they possess a Barbary lion] when there is little or no evidence to back up the fact," Black says.




Quote:
 
rbary lion news, this is shocking: smiley: eek



“There is no Barbary Lion project any more. Only 5 lions were determined to have had sufficient Barbary or Black Mane DNA to have been candidates for bringing this species back from the edge of extinction. The only female was Sarabi at Big Cat Rescue who died from cancer in 2007. It is unlikely that the four males identified are still living. The following was the attempt made to save this beautiful lion by the King of Morocco, but when he died the dream died with him.



Yamaguchi, who co-authored the new study, says that to date no living Barbary lions have been confirmed in captivity, despite various rumors to the contrary.”



2007 Update:

Unfortunately the only female lion thought to be an appropriate candidate for breeding has died. The project has collapsed and there is no hope of reviving the Barbary Lion.



Source: http://bigcatrescue.org/barbary-lions/




BARBARY LIONS CAPTIVE OR IN THE WILD DO NOT EXIST.

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1.0reef
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50/50 if these are Amur tigers before their range was shrunk and human civilization wasn't as plentiful, I'd give a tiny edge to them.
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Asadas
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KayoP
Oct 23 2014, 05:24 AM
Asadas
Oct 23 2014, 04:09 AM
A neutered lion or tiger will reach over 800 lbs in captivity but have weaker larger bones than those in the wild.

The Siberian tiger is worlds largest cat in Captivity by 100 lbs over Bengal tiger or African lion.

However the chest size of Ngorongoro lions is squal with Siberian tigers per Dr. Packer. And we don't know enough about Atlas lions to come to any conclusion on height based on limited bones we have.

..he Ethiopian lion has a distinctive dark mane and is slightly smaller and more compact than other African lions. Now an analysis of its DNA has revealed the Ethiopian lion is also a distinct breed.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/dna-confirms-ethiopian-lions-are-genetically-distinct-group-8207559.html

Lions in captivity develope belly manes though they are not Atlas, or Cape lions or Persian, and cooler climates higher elevation per Bergmans rule are larger in size.

The lions at Addis are not Atlas lions they reside on opposite sides of the African continent, and have unique DNA.

Atlas lion from cat tales in Washington state does it look short? It weighed between 650- 700 lbs before it passed away last year.

..Dr. Tataryn was chosen to treat the 650-pound lion

http://www.llu.edu/dentistry/news/index.page?story_id=1032
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1wlHi_KK1U&feature=player_embedded

Posted Image
http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8109000/8109945.stm


Quote:
 
"There is strong circumstantial evidence, therefore, that the animals at Rabat zoo were a relic from the original Barbary lions collected from the wild," says Black.

However, the possibility that some Barbary lions survive, and they may be the last remnants of a lost subspecies of lion, has become an extremely marketable concept.

"It is not uncommon for zoos to advertise [that they possess a Barbary lion] when there is little or no evidence to back up the fact," Black says.




Quote:
 
rbary lion news, this is shocking: smiley: eek



“There is no Barbary Lion project any more. Only 5 lions were determined to have had sufficient Barbary or Black Mane DNA to have been candidates for bringing this species back from the edge of extinction. The only female was Sarabi at Big Cat Rescue who died from cancer in 2007. It is unlikely that the four males identified are still living. The following was the attempt made to save this beautiful lion by the King of Morocco, but when he died the dream died with him.



Yamaguchi, who co-authored the new study, says that to date no living Barbary lions have been confirmed in captivity, despite various rumors to the contrary.”



2007 Update:

Unfortunately the only female lion thought to be an appropriate candidate for breeding has died. The project has collapsed and there is no hope of reviving the Barbary Lion.



Source: http://bigcatrescue.org/barbary-lions/




BARBARY LIONS CAPTIVE OR IN THE WILD DO NOT EXIST.

The blood sample of Zamba from catales was sent to Oxford Uk no results have been published. The Atlas lion has a unique skull not shared from any other lion, confirmed by dna and skull samples available.

Not an Atlas lion but due to cold climate and peaceful captive existence it developes an enormous belly mane.

Posted Image

Although no pure lions exist from Atlas region, Dr Yamaguchi has suggested rewinding Northwest Africa with Persian lions as their far geographic cousin.
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Feline
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maker
Oct 21 2014, 06:53 AM
Historic Barbary lion vs historic Siberian tiger, tiger wins.
Was not siberian tiger's average weight (190 kg) measured in only one region? How can they become smaller in next generation?
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Batman
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Barbary Lion still wins.
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Amur
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KayoP
Oct 23 2014, 05:24 AM
Asadas
Oct 23 2014, 04:09 AM
A neutered lion or tiger will reach over 800 lbs in captivity but have weaker larger bones than those in the wild.

The Siberian tiger is worlds largest cat in Captivity by 100 lbs over Bengal tiger or African lion.

However the chest size of Ngorongoro lions is squal with Siberian tigers per Dr. Packer. And we don't know enough about Atlas lions to come to any conclusion on height based on limited bones we have.

..he Ethiopian lion has a distinctive dark mane and is slightly smaller and more compact than other African lions. Now an analysis of its DNA has revealed the Ethiopian lion is also a distinct breed.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/dna-confirms-ethiopian-lions-are-genetically-distinct-group-8207559.html

Lions in captivity develope belly manes though they are not Atlas, or Cape lions or Persian, and cooler climates higher elevation per Bergmans rule are larger in size.

The lions at Addis are not Atlas lions they reside on opposite sides of the African continent, and have unique DNA.

Atlas lion from cat tales in Washington state does it look short? It weighed between 650- 700 lbs before it passed away last year.

..Dr. Tataryn was chosen to treat the 650-pound lion

http://www.llu.edu/dentistry/news/index.page?story_id=1032
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1wlHi_KK1U&feature=player_embedded

Posted Image
http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8109000/8109945.stm


Quote:
 
"There is strong circumstantial evidence, therefore, that the animals at Rabat zoo were a relic from the original Barbary lions collected from the wild," says Black.

However, the possibility that some Barbary lions survive, and they may be the last remnants of a lost subspecies of lion, has become an extremely marketable concept.

"It is not uncommon for zoos to advertise [that they possess a Barbary lion] when there is little or no evidence to back up the fact," Black says.




Quote:
 
rbary lion news, this is shocking: smiley: eek



“There is no Barbary Lion project any more. Only 5 lions were determined to have had sufficient Barbary or Black Mane DNA to have been candidates for bringing this species back from the edge of extinction. The only female was Sarabi at Big Cat Rescue who died from cancer in 2007. It is unlikely that the four males identified are still living. The following was the attempt made to save this beautiful lion by the King of Morocco, but when he died the dream died with him.



Yamaguchi, who co-authored the new study, says that to date no living Barbary lions have been confirmed in captivity, despite various rumors to the contrary.”



2007 Update:

Unfortunately the only female lion thought to be an appropriate candidate for breeding has died. The project has collapsed and there is no hope of reviving the Barbary Lion.



Source: http://bigcatrescue.org/barbary-lions/




BARBARY LIONS CAPTIVE OR IN THE WILD DO NOT EXIST.

That's a regal looking animal, but still, Barbary lions are not the animals every one thinks they are. They would be 100 lbs less than a Siberian (or less) and you know it.
As for the climate changing.



Quote:
 
And Bergmann's rule has been drunk time and time again Do you not realize that many contemporary scientists dismiss/criticise it? Valerius Geist noted that the correlation with temperature is spurious, instead he found body size is proportional to the duration of the annual productivity pulse, or food availability-per-animal during the growing season.

Evidence is strong against: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=udCnKce9hfoC&pg=PA161&dq=bergmann%27s+rule+is+invalid&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QdhFUo78NYGCtAaIv4CoDg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=bergmann%27s%20rule%20is%20invalid&f=false


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Another example of your example being exposed


Barbary lion was not the biggest lion at the time and it wouldn't be the biggest had it been alive.


Siberian wins due to size advantage
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Batman
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The Siberian, same size as Bengal, beats a the larger Lion, riiight
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