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Red Wolf Recovery Under Assault in North Carolina; Proposal of Ending the Red Wolf Recovery Program
Topic Started: Feb 5 2015, 03:54 AM (3,018 Views)
Mauro20
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Feb 7 2015, 07:33 PM
I know about genetic pollution, but I thought this was only a concern when it happens with non-native species such as the examples I made. Or with subspecies in zoos and when reintroducing species. Not say, naturally occurring hooded crow x carrion crow.

Because I haven't heard of concerns about hooded crow x carrion crow. And in Europe the interbreeding with wolf subspecies is recommended.
Coyote x Wolf hybridization is not common in healthy populations. About the red wolf, it probably used to be an independent species, but hybridized with coyotes because humans hunted them so much there were few available mates, making this an "unnatural" phenomenon, unlike hooded crow x carrion crow hybrids. In addition, interbreeding between different subspecies isn't the same as interbreeding between different species.
maker
Feb 7 2015, 07:51 PM
Hybrid > inbreeding
Red wolves should be allowed to naturally hybridize to coyotes to avoid inbreeding.
Hybrids aren't always more fit than "pure" animals. Often, they are even worse - haven't you heard of outbreeding depression?
Edited by Mauro20, Feb 8 2015, 12:21 AM.
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Mesopredator
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Mauro20
Feb 8 2015, 12:08 AM
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Feb 7 2015, 07:33 PM
I know about genetic pollution, but I thought this was only a concern when it happens with non-native species such as the examples I made. Or with subspecies in zoos and when reintroducing species. Not say, naturally occurring hooded crow x carrion crow.

Because I haven't heard of concerns about hooded crow x carrion crow. And in Europe the interbreeding with wolf subspecies is recommended.
Coyote x Wolf hybridization is not common in healthy populations. About the red wolf, it probably used to be an independent species, but hybridized with coyotes because humans hunted them so much there were few available mates, making this an "unnatural" phenomenon, unlike hooded crow x carrion crow hybrids. In addition, interbreeding between different subspecies isn't the same as interbreeding between different species.
While I agree that between subspecies it is different. You do make some fair points. But what is your evidence that coyote x wolf hybridization is not common in healthy populations? And what is a healthy population?

Are you saying wolves were desperate?
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Mauro20
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Feb 8 2015, 01:15 AM
While I agree that between subspecies it is different. You do make some fair points. But what is your evidence that coyote x wolf hybridization is not common in healthy populations? And what is a healthy population?

Are you saying wolves were desperate?
Just look at what kingkazma posted in this thread - wolves usually harass and/or kill coyotes whenever they can.

Animals usually avoid interbreeding with other species. For example, you can breed guppies and mollies in the same aquarium for generations and they probably won't hybridize, but if you keep male guppies and female mollies (or vice versa) you could get hybrids. You can keep Muscovy ducks and Pekin ducks in the same yard for years, and they won't interbreed, but if you keep male muscovies and female pekins, you could obtain mulards. I can easily see a population under pressure, like the red wolf, being more likely to hybridize to avoid mating with close relatives.
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MightyKharza
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Feb 7 2015, 01:30 AM
This is nothing personal against you MightyKharza. I know you are simply trying to provide a different perspective, and I appreciate that. All sides of the story should be told.
Tranquillo, capisco benissimo.

(for the non-Italian speakers, "Don't worry, I understand fully")
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maker
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Mauro20
Feb 8 2015, 12:08 AM
Hybrids aren't always more fit than "pure" animals. Often, they are even worse - haven't you heard of outbreeding depression?
Eastern coyotes are definitely more fit than red wolves.
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Sicilianu
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I am hoping that the Canid Species Specialist group comes out strong against this proposal. At a minimum, we need to do more research on this animal before any drastic decisions are made.
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kingkazma
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whats the situation
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maker
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http://www.citizen-times.com/story/girls-gone-outdoors/2015/02/24/groups-oppose-nc-conditional-coyote-hunting/23947903/
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Mesopredator
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Hybridization can still occur naturally without pressure between species. It is rare, yes.
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Sicilianu
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I haven't seen an update or a response from the U.S. government. I'll post when I do.
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Hybrid
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This is terrible news hopefully the petition can reach its goal but it looks like we would need another week or so to get to 9,000
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