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Dealing with rogue maneaters
Topic Started: Mar 10 2015, 09:41 PM (1,899 Views)
ffejgao995
Heterotrophic Organism
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No just the opposite.
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snap
Autotrophic Organism
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Canadianwildlife
Mar 11 2015, 07:09 PM
I don't blame animals at all for anything because its their nature, they do what they do. However, I do believe that an animal should be killed if it kills someone, as it can do it again in the future. Any animal can attack at any time, but once is enough and it could very much do it twice.
And it's especially concerning for a large carnivore to discover just how laughably easy humans are to kill. By not having any natural predators we have not had any requirement to develop the natural defences of it's usual prey. Once it discovers this it would likely give us a strong preference.
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Mesopredator
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FelinePowah
Mar 11 2015, 05:48 PM
Mesopredator
Mar 11 2015, 04:43 AM
Shin
Mar 11 2015, 04:04 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I just don't mind them getting killed, no. There's too many of them around here roaming the countryside. Being domesticated doesn't give them special rights. That aside, yes it is the responsibility of their owners to take care of them.

Actually, the theory is that cats did domesticate themselves by preying on the mice in granaries of the first argicultural socities. That doesn't justify killing, but still I don't mind if they do get killed by say wolves or coyotes.
Humans are just to adaptable for there own good.....far to many of them. ....they are wanton killers.......I don't mind if the get killed......
So your moaning because people want to protect endangered animals.....tigers and crocs are endangered.....big deal if they eat the odd stupid human......there are far to many of us anyway.... Humans think they are immune to being eaten.....well if you go skinny dipping in a river....you might lose a leg.....deal with it....


xenosabre
Mar 11 2015, 06:24 AM
Shin
Mar 11 2015, 04:04 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I Personally blame the owners (although most theories lead to the conclusion that domestic cats domesticated themselves) However many ferals need predators because without them they destroy local wildlife. I'll be using the local 23 lb feral in my woods called bubba as an example, I live in the woods with a few neighbors. The neighbor who lives just up from my house has a cat who had kittens, she couldn't afford to keep the kittens so she just let them loose, even with the mother cats watchful eye only bubba survived. At three years old we decided to neuter bubba and give him his shots so he couldn't breed and make the problem worse. Bubba is very people friendly (even though nobody gave him food) but also very territorial, Just two months ago I heard a high pitched screaming howl outside my house so I decided to get dressed and see what's going on, when I get out there I find bubba asphyxiating a fox, I tried to stop it but with the time it took to get dressed and scare bubba off the fox was already dead. Does bubba's life mean any more than that foxes? If bubba was just kept inside that fox would likely still be alive, so while I don't like seeing the cats die and I don't blame them they still kill native animals and by extension will be killed by native animals.
Instead of blaming the cats for the destruction on the earth!!
We should be praising them for being able to survive and grow on the swear worded up world humans are creating. ...

So ridiculous blaming an animal.....compared to what humans do....cats impact is hardly anything. ...
Hey I understand you. There are many, too many, humans, and we have a big impact on the natural world. And both the population and consumption increase, causing more stress on the environment.

But let's be realistic. We can't let man-eaters prey on humans. Even if there are so many people.

There's nothing wrong with cats per se. But if they are left outside the owner shouldn't blame predators if it gets killed. I have lost chickens this way which is my fault, not the fox or marten who killed them.

If a person brings himself or herself in danger knowingly, than (s)he is to blame if it results in death.
Edited by Mesopredator, Mar 11 2015, 09:14 PM.
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Inhumanum Rapax
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maker
Mar 11 2015, 07:54 PM
xenosabre
Mar 11 2015, 06:24 AM
However many ferals need predators because without them they destroy local wildlife.
Only in non-native areas though, in native areas (parts of Afro-Eurasia), they are simply native species, and depend on where they are, may or may not have predators.
I know this.
FelinePowah
Mar 11 2015, 05:48 PM
Mesopredator
Mar 11 2015, 04:43 AM
Shin
Mar 11 2015, 04:04 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I just don't mind them getting killed, no. There's too many of them around here roaming the countryside. Being domesticated doesn't give them special rights. That aside, yes it is the responsibility of their owners to take care of them.

Actually, the theory is that cats did domesticate themselves by preying on the mice in granaries of the first argicultural socities. That doesn't justify killing, but still I don't mind if they do get killed by say wolves or coyotes.
Humans are just to adaptable for there own good.....far to many of them. ....they are wanton killers.......I don't mind if the get killed......
So your moaning because people want to protect endangered animals.....tigers and crocs are endangered.....big deal if they eat the odd stupid human......there are far to many of us anyway.... Humans think they are immune to being eaten.....well if you go skinny dipping in a river....you might lose a leg.....deal with it....


xenosabre
Mar 11 2015, 06:24 AM
Shin
Mar 11 2015, 04:04 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I Personally blame the owners (although most theories lead to the conclusion that domestic cats domesticated themselves) However many ferals need predators because without them they destroy local wildlife. I'll be using the local 23 lb feral in my woods called bubba as an example, I live in the woods with a few neighbors. The neighbor who lives just up from my house has a cat who had kittens, she couldn't afford to keep the kittens so she just let them loose, even with the mother cats watchful eye only bubba survived. At three years old we decided to neuter bubba and give him his shots so he couldn't breed and make the problem worse. Bubba is very people friendly (even though nobody gave him food) but also very territorial, Just two months ago I heard a high pitched screaming howl outside my house so I decided to get dressed and see what's going on, when I get out there I find bubba asphyxiating a fox, I tried to stop it but with the time it took to get dressed and scare bubba off the fox was already dead. Does bubba's life mean any more than that foxes? If bubba was just kept inside that fox would likely still be alive, so while I don't like seeing the cats die and I don't blame them they still kill native animals and by extension will be killed by native animals.
Instead of blaming the cats for the destruction on the earth!!
We should be praising them for being able to survive and grow on the swear worded up world humans are creating. ...

So ridiculous blaming an animal.....compared to what humans do....cats impact is hardly anything. ...
Where in my post did I blame cats for the destruction of the earth?
Edited by Inhumanum Rapax, Mar 11 2015, 11:00 PM.
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maker
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You said cats need predators or they will destroy local wildlife, but it is only true for remote and isolated islands, there is no evidence elsewhere that cats cause decline in their prey, especially birds more than natural causes, populations:
http://www.rspb.org.uk/makeahomeforwildlife/advice/gardening/unwantedvisitors/cats/birddeclines.aspx

http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=1028
These ferals should just be vaccinated and returned, there is no need to remove them, but in remote nonnative islands, cats, along with every invasive species, should be removed.

Edited by maker, Mar 12 2015, 07:00 AM.
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Mesopredator
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maker
Mar 12 2015, 06:57 AM
You said cats need predators or they will destroy local wildlife, but it is only true for remote and isolated islands, there is no evidence elsewhere that cats cause decline in their prey, especially birds more than natural causes, populations:
http://www.rspb.org.uk/makeahomeforwildlife/advice/gardening/unwantedvisitors/cats/birddeclines.aspx

http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=1028
These ferals should just be vaccinated and returned, there is no need to remove them, but in remote nonnative islands, cats, along with every invasive species, should be removed.

I think the issue is that roaming domestic cat populations can be artificially high. About that link, lack of evidence doesn't mean that there's no truth in it, or no impact. I find the arguments of the rspb weak. Most prey species do respond to predation, and it is true that animals die of starvation or illness. I do not know if the sick and old argument is that valid. I hear it often, yet I know of examples of predators preying on healthy individuals. They also just stated that lot of birds, sick or in need of food, die of non-predation.

My problem is that unlike say the real, non semi-feral, feral cats, they do not reach a ecological equilibrium. Mesopredator populations are still spread because of food availability, competition from other mesopredators and sometimes their numbers are lower because of top predators - note that I do not think all predators necessary lower mesopredator populations. Roaming pet cats thus, are high in number, and defy the laws of ecology (unless pet cats also happen to have clear territory, in which case I might overestimate the problem).

And yes on remote and isolated islands, also Australia, predatory species can have a huge impact because there's no co-evolution with the predators or any predator at all. That's why I can't take statistics of extinction by all non-native species seriously if they want to use it as a model for, say, Europe.

Still (high) populations of predators can still have (local) impacts. We have no gulls breeding in our dunes, and groundnesting spoonbills anymore because of red fox predation. Raccoon dogs can have a local impact on vulnerable species. Etc. There's no doubt that pet cats can have an impact on species, but how severe it is? That I can't say for sure, but I do think they should be kept indoors as much as possible.
Edited by Mesopredator, Mar 12 2015, 07:41 AM.
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