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| Have anybody here seen "Ultimate Animals" in NAT Geo Wild?; Do you believe all those facts of animals ? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 17 2015, 03:21 PM (2,874 Views) | |
| bitisgabonica | Jul 17 2015, 03:21 PM Post #1 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Have anybody here seen "Ultimate Animals" in NAT Geo Wild? Do you believe all those facts of animals ? some of them are too unbelievable. like: Tigers having specific genetic ability to transform all meat in to muscles( i mean they said like around 99% of meat is transformed in to muscle) being the strongest big cat being the largest big cat giving bears a run for their life |
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| ARM0R | Jul 17 2015, 11:29 PM Post #2 |
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Herbivore
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I suppose if 99% of meat transformed into muscle tigers would be extinct by now. Their organs and the muscle that´s already existent requires tons of energy. Therefore most of the eaten meat turns into "fuel" - not muscle. Also there´s no account about an adult MALE brown bear that got killed by a tiger as far as I know. Any account I read contained either sows and subadult bears. Besides it works that way vice versa as well. Adult bears will sometimes kill young or female tigers if they don´t give up their kills. If bears OR tigers were GENERALLY superior they couldn´t share habitats I guess. |
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| Marek | Jul 18 2015, 06:54 AM Post #3 |
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Herbivore
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The fact about "99% muscle" is absurdly ridiculous, and demonstrates a lack of knowledge of anatomical processes and their biochemical specifics. Most of the food they are eating is already muscle, so it needn't be converted, but I suppose they means it is converted into muscle of their own, which is untrue, as it would require a directly tangible correlation between mass of food eaten and mass gained. Considering a single feeding session might require consuming 10 kg of food, the weight gain would be easily observed, even if the tiger only fed thrice in a week. Much of the consumed muscle is lined with adipose tissue, which is utilized for energy production, and the rest of the food is broken down into peptides, which are also metabolized. Materials from the protein content are recycled to produce a variety of proteins, which are coded for by the DNA of the tiger, but not the entirety of the food is protein, and not the entirety of the protein is repurposed, and not the entirety of repurposed protein becomes muscle. So much wrong with this line of reasoning. |
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| VenomousDragon | Jul 18 2015, 08:59 AM Post #4 |
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Omnivore
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It's typical sensationalized bs Meant for the ignorant masses. |
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| bitisgabonica | Jul 18 2015, 03:22 PM Post #5 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Sorry I just exaggerated. They never mentioned the muscle or energy conversion by percentage but they said the tigers genes make it more efficient in building muscle when compared to other large carnivores of their class but they did say that they are a huge challenge for bears. I like the show personally but what do you think of the show. Anybody having research papers or accounts |
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| Marek | Jul 18 2015, 04:07 PM Post #6 |
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Herbivore
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Most of the facts, then, appear accurate. Tigers are undoubtedly the largest big cats, and are consequently (although it is not a necessary consequence) the strongest big cats as well, absolutely (as opposed to relatively; that is a claim which is probably incorrect, but I would be afraid to take any stance on the topic of which big cat is the strongest for its size on this forum!). Also, tigers of the largest subspecies are probably fair matches, at parity, for brown and polar bears, even if they would lose such a match (the fact that the match is considered fair is attested by this forum). In their native range, they most definitely make a daunting encounter for the three species of bear present there (sloth, sun, and Asiatic black). The fact about muscles does seem illegitimate, because it seems like it would be a meticulous thing to test, but perhaps it is not, as it seems a very slight point. Most nature shows on air aren't terribly accurate or of especially high quality, and I have not seen this one as far as I can recall, so I cannot judge its veracity. I will go on a tangent rant and say that I commend Nat Geo Wild for being among the last of a dying breed, that is, channels which actually broadcast nature programs (Animal Planet, Discovery Channel, and National Geographic are almost literally vomit-inducing in the crap-encrusted negative-tier television they presently produce). Some good shows that occasionally grace relevant channels are North America, Frozen Planet, and generally anything narrated by David Attenborough, including Planet Earth, Blue Planet, Life, and the "Life of" series of series (I don't like or dislike popular figures; he just happens to appear in some quality television). |
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| pckts | Jul 23 2015, 08:09 AM Post #7 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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From Peter in a different forum: "This one was similar in length (11.6 'over curves'), but bigger all the way. W.J. Jankowski, who was there when the tiger was shot, wrote it was the largest Amur tiger he and his brothers had even seen. And they had seen more than anyone. In his letter to V. Mazak (May 8, 1970), he wrote the giant tiger was at least 300 kg. A few days before he was shot (in July 1943), the tiger had killed a large male brown bear of which only the head and one leg remained. The bear undoubtedly contributed to the great weight. I've posted the photograph more than once, but I can't get enough of it. It really is a glimpse into the past and one of a kind:" ![]() ![]() Edited by pckts, Jul 23 2015, 08:17 AM.
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| bitisgabonica | Jul 24 2015, 03:07 PM Post #8 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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why has the asian lion and siberian tigers size shrinked? |
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| pckts | Jul 26 2015, 05:47 AM Post #9 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Im not sure about the Asiatic lion since no real new data exists on their weight but the Amur tigers seem to be because of the lack of food and habitat. Seems only reasonable since we take their land and their prey, they have no choice but to down size. Could also be the use of more reliable measuring methods now a days compared to a long time ago. But I lean towards the idea of prey and habitat depletion as well as the largest members of their species being hunted to near extinction which would remove the genes for larger tigers to occur more often, all being the main factors as to why. |
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| Warsaw2014 | Jul 26 2015, 06:32 AM Post #10 |
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Herbivore
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Dec 30 2014, 06:30 AM Post #144 http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/10246769/10/#post8724563 "The bear undoubtedly contributed to the great weight" On what basis can you say that? "In his letter to V. Mazak (May 8, 1970), he wrote the giant tiger was at least 300 kg." Jankowski stated that "big Siberian" was no less than 350 kg |
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| pckts | Jul 28 2015, 03:05 AM Post #11 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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That account is from Peter, He stated the bear contributing to the great weight but the actual account is ""This one was similar in length (11.6 'over curves'), but bigger all the way. W.J. Jankowski, who was there when the tiger was shot, wrote it was the largest Amur tiger he and his brothers had even seen. And they had seen more than anyone. In his letter to V. Mazak (May 8, 1970), he wrote the giant tiger was at least 300 kg. A few days before he was shot (in July 1943), the tiger had killed a large male brown bear of which only the head and one leg remained." Is from this^ |
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| Warsaw2014 | Jul 28 2015, 04:47 AM Post #12 |
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Herbivore
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You always refer to Mazak but he is only a secondary source.You know the difference between a primary and secondary source? Here's a primary source:Tiger,deer,ginseng" by V.J .Jankovski http://coollib.net/b/261421/read " He stated the bear contributing to the great weight " Interesting.On what basis he said that "the bear contributing to the great weight ? OK Jankowski only wrote that the tiger had eaten the bear . It's weird to me that the original text of Jankowski book does not mention a single word about any signs of struggle between the bear and the tiger .Jankowski stated the tiger measured 11 feet and 6 inches (1/2 feet) and " measurement being taken from the skin when taken off " |
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| pckts | Jul 28 2015, 05:04 AM Post #13 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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He is a secondary source that he wasn't there but he was the person who the letter was specifically written to, why would he need to lie? Obviously can't read the primary source since its not translated. So you're saying Jankowski never said ? " the tiger had KILLED a large male brown bear of which only the head and one leg remained." Peter even states it again "The enormous Amur tiger shot by the sons of Jankowski and a Korean professional hunter in July 1943. He wasn't weighed, but estimated at about 300 kg. (660 pounds) after eating a large male brown bear he killed. Yes, I know male tigers don't kill male brown bears, but this one did according to those who shot him and he only left his skull and paws. " And Amur even said the same thing "" ... Regarding the giant Amur tiger shot by W.J. Jankowski and his team in the Sungari River Basin in 1943; the precise weight is unknown. Jankowski, however, estimated the tiger at about 300 kg. (660 pounds). He wrote (Mazak quoted from his letter, dated May 8, 1970): 'The tiger was so large, we had to get help in order to get the tiger out of the forest. When the assistents arrived, there were 9 strong man alltogether. We devided the tiger into pieces and each of us carried a load of 30-40 kg. I do not hesitate to say the tiger very probably wasn't below 300 kg.' To complete the information on this giant tiger, I should perhaps mention that Jankowski wrote that the tiger had killed and eaten a very large male brown bear a few days before he was shot, of which only a leg and the head, found by Jankowski, remained ...": " And posted the actual article and reference. http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/10246769/1/ |
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| Warsaw2014 | Jul 28 2015, 05:46 AM Post #14 |
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Herbivore
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Once again: "So you're saying Jankowski never said ? " the tiger had KILLED a large male brown bear of which only the head and one leg remained." Here is what Jankovski actually said: "...На месте лежки Шин обнаружил кровь, рядом — крупную голову и остаток медвежьей лапы (large head and the rest of the bear paws.)..." лежки -*The place where the tiger lay on the ground It's weird to me that the original text of Jankowski book does not mention a single word about any signs of struggle between the bear and the tiger . For example: “It’s a confirmed kill by a royal Bengal tiger, since there are canine puncture marks on the bear’s throat and spine, as well as tiger claw marks lacerating the bears face and tiger pug marks in the area,” said Phub Tshering, the JDNP park beat officer, who discovered the carcass. He said that there were also signs of struggle between the bear and the tiger with rhododendrons bushes uprooted and claw marks on trees. “Usually the Himalayan black bear is a powerful foe for any tiger and they avoid each other, but here the bear seems to be a juvenile at 2-3 years and hence did not have the muscle and fighting abilities it gets by the time it reaches its adult age of 5 years,” said Dr Sonam Wangyel, the chief forestry officer and wildlife biologist. He said that it was likely that the two animals met accidentally. http://bigcatrescue.org/himalayan-bear-killed-by-tiger/ To complete the information on this giant tiger, I should perhaps mention that Jankowski wrote that the tiger had killed and eaten a very large male brown bear a few days before he was shot, of which only a leg and the head, found by Jankowski, remained ... It's not true ,look above.Jankowski only wrote that tiger eaten a bear.It may be that the tiger had killed the bear,but it's unclear. The tiger was so large, we had to get help in order to get the tiger out of the forest. When the assistents arrived, there were 9 strong man alltogether. We devided the tiger into pieces and each of us carried a load of 30-40 kg To complete the information on this giant tiger: "Освежеванного тигра выносили вдевятером. Мне досталась необезжиренная шкура, которая показалась свинцовой, на пути к палатке пришлось не раз отдыхать. Взвесить груз целиком не удалось, однако, по общему подсчету, он тянул не менее 350 килограммов. Но что удивительно — розовое жирное мясо хищника оказалось на редкость вкусным. Мы натопили несколько литров янтарного жира, на котором жарили лепешки. А мясо, законсервированное начальником лесоучастка по-японски, со специями, было просто превосходным! Расстелив шкуру посреди чисто выметенного двора, японец скрупулезно измерил ее длину от носа до хвоста. Вышло одиннадцать с половиной футов — более чем три и три четверти метра!" When the assistants arrived, there were 9 Edited by Warsaw2014, Jul 28 2015, 05:54 AM.
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| pckts | Jul 28 2015, 07:56 AM Post #15 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Here is what Needs to be translated ![]() ![]() Thats the account of the Male brown bear being killed. Are we now discussing if Tigers are capable of killing male bears? I'll search for more, I remember a Male Tiger killing a male black bear but I think this is the only account of a Male Brown Bear being killed. Large Sumatran male kills Boar Sun Bear 4 - GOLIATH AND THE SUN BEAR When working in a remote part of an estate, Denninghoff Stelling saw the largest tiger he had ever seen. He described his head as monstrous. He shot the tiger, but never saw him again. Others found his remains. It wasn't the only large tiger he saw. On an estate known as 'Bekri', a very large male tiger he called 'Goliath' was one of the tigers he was after. During a number of days, they followed his trail. His pug marks were the largest he had seen. One day, when following the tiger, he came to a place where something had happened: ![]() ![]() Here's the rough translation: " ... We followed the trail for about a hundred yards, when it suddenly stopped. I returned to the last prints ... and saw that the tiger had left the trail abruptly and entered a garden. The distance between the prints become shorter, as if he had advanced slowly. Then they suddenly became wide apart, as if he had taken very long jumps. They stopped at a place where large claws had left many gashes in the ground. This was the place where a fight had taken place. There was blood everywhere. Goliath had won the fight. From the battlefield, something heavy had been dragged to an alang-alang field a hundred yards wide. Directly behind the field, the forest started. We expected to find the remains of the animal killed by Goliath, but only found bear skin, bear claws and gnawed bones. I became enthousiastic. Tigers hesitate to attack bears. The reason is these innocent creatures, very solidly built and armed with strong teeth and dangerous claws, are more than capable to defend themselves ... " (pp. 187-188). The bear had been completely eaten. In order to get to the giant tiger, Denninghoff Stelling shot a large wild boar. He was to be his next meal. The next day, they found that Goliath had broken the rope and taken the heavyweight in his jaws. He did it in such a way, there was hardly a drag visible. It took Denninghoff and his tracker Oesin some time to get to the place where the giant had decided to start his meal. The wild boar had been completely eaten, but Goliath had not been the only one who had feasted. They found the pug marks of a small tigress close to the boar. They decided to sit up over the left-overs, lighted the 'belor' and thought it would be wasted energy. To their surprise, Goliath returned to his kill. But he didn't show himself. He made a detour, discovered the machan (called a 'prangong' in Sumatra) and protested for a long time before leaving. But minutes later, still in the prangong, Denninghoff saw him out in the open in a nearby field. The tiger wasn't going to give in and waited for them to leave. When he approached his kill, Denninghoff Stelling, aiming at the only thing he could see, the eye, didn't miss. It proved to be a giant tiger: Edited by pckts, Jul 28 2015, 08:08 AM.
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