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| Have anybody here seen "Ultimate Animals" in NAT Geo Wild?; Do you believe all those facts of animals ? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 17 2015, 03:21 PM (2,873 Views) | |
| WaveRiders_ | Oct 2 2015, 10:12 AM Post #31 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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Thank you Warsaw. With all due respect I have particularly for people passed away it has always been difficult to accept that record from Jankowski of a 11 ft 6 inches over curves Amur tiger shot in 1943 reported by V. Mazak in a number of his writings including the book “Der Tiger”, also because in my opinion no wild tiger (or lion) record in general at that length in the flesh over curves has ever been proved or can be retained reliable and accurate. Jankowski father apparently claimed to have shot a 13 feet Amur male tiger measured over curves on a frozen carcase and a 11 ft 8 inches female Amur tiger measured over curves. And also he apparently claimed he saw an old man-eating tiger measuring 12 ft 8 inches over curves shot by some Korean hunters. Once anyone makes those kind of statements unfortunately he looses all or most of his credibility. It is inevitable. Therefore I always put the supposed 11 ft 6 inches male from Sungari River shot in 1943 measured over curves in the limbo of unreliable records with only a tiny possibility of being considered. Although it should be reminded that Mazak has several merits including the one to have clarified the weights of those Amur tigers shot in the Morden-Graves North Asiatic expedition (Morden 1930; Goodwin, 1933) as well as how those animals have been measured through his epistular correspondence with Goodwin (Mazak, 1967, 1983), Mazak unfortunately appears to loose some points in this Sungari River Amurr tiger length issue. I believe Mazak should have informed the reader of an inconsistency between what it is written in Jankowski book and what is written in the mail he received from Jankowski. For some reasons Mazak did not and this is not acceptable. You have a book from the primary source, you have a mail from the primary source that nobody can check (apparently, maybe J. H. Mazak or somebody else will be able to find it) and you have a claim from a scientist different from that of the primary source. Considering that the primary source’s family claimed to have shot tigers of totally unrealistic lengths, that the scientist in question, with all due respect, has been found by his peers to have mixed a little bit too much reliable and unreliable historical body size/weight records (for sure not the only zoologist even in recent time) and that he also mixed wild and captive skull measurements in his analyses, I am now inclined to completely reject even that tiny possibility that I had always conceded to that 11ft 6 inches Amur tiger shot by Jankowski in 1943 close to the Sungari River to be acceptable. As it now seems proved to me it was a skin measurement I would say that the tiny possibility I had conceded shrinked to zero. It also seems that the primary source, Jankowski, never wrote in his book that the brown bear eaten by that tiger a few days earlier then being shot was killed as a result from an evident fight with the tiger that the bear had lost and that the bear was a very large male as stated by Mazak (1983). Maybe Mazak assumed a large head implied a very large male. A bit too much freedom in his interpretation. Anyway, I am aware you may have discussed those issues in the past. From my side the case is now fully clear. Edited by WaveRiders_, Oct 2 2015, 10:38 AM.
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| Warsaw2014 | Feb 15 2018, 05:54 AM Post #32 |
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Herbivore
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Peter wrote WARSAW "It didn't take you long to respond to the questions in post 1,447, but you didn't deliver. I'll try again." To be continued........ Ok "When a poster responded to your post about the book of W.J. Jankowski, you said Jankowski is the primary source. V. Mazak's book is a secondary source. This means that W.J. Jankowski's remarks on the tiger are final. This means you, indirectly, said that V. Mazak lied regarding the length of the tiger and the bear eaten by the tiger." No! This means that W.J. Jankowski's wersion that the Tiger skin was measured is far more realistic Освежеванного тигра выносили вдевятером. Мне досталась необезжиренная шкура, которая показалась свинцовой, на пути к палатке пришлось не раз отдыхать. Взвесить груз целиком не удалось, однако, по общему подсчету, он тянул не менее 350 килограммов. Но что удивительно — розовое жирное мясо хищника оказалось на редкость вкусным. Мы натопили несколько литров янтарного жира, на котором жарили лепешки. А мясо, законсервированное начальником лесоучастка по-японски, со специями, было просто превосходным! Расстелив шкуру посреди чисто выметенного двора, японец скрупулезно измерил ее длину от носа до хвоста. Вышло одиннадцать с половиной футов — более чем три и три четверти метра! Очищенные кости, почти по цене пантов, взяли китайские аптекари; шкура украсила роскошную гостиную семейства Бринер в Харбине. А огромный череп с желтоватыми клыками — с большой палец каждый — Шин подарил другу юности — моему отцу. В его богатой коллекции рогов, клыков и черепов этот занял самое почетное место. https://www.litmir.me/br/?b=181911&p=50 Post no 26 from 2015 Jankowski (primary source) never said that the bear was a "very large male " Here's whta Jankowski said: "...Шин говорит: тигр оглушительно рявкнул, опрокинулся, но моментально вскочил и, в три прыжка достигнув леса, исчез, растворился в нем. Некоторое время доносился шум прыжков, ломаемых кустов, потом все стихло. На месте лежки Шин обнаружил кровь, рядом — крупную голову и остаток медвежьей лапы: видимо, властелин отдыхал после обильного завтрака..." http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/10341695/2/ Interview with W.J .Jankowski (88 y.o) 1999 https://youtu.be/jn3VYf1q41o This old man speaking logically .Interesting and sad story BTW. Edited by Warsaw2014, Feb 16 2018, 12:57 AM.
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9:51 AM Jul 11