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Are vegans/vegetarians morally superior?
Topic Started: Aug 2 2015, 07:08 AM (5,760 Views)
Mauro20
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I'm not sure if there's some thread about it already, but after reading the "no words" topic, I've decided to make this one. Lots of vegans apparently believe they are morally superior to omnivores. What is your opinion about it?
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Tyrant
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Well it certainty is an indication that they are, assuming of course their dietary choice stems from ethical reasons and not simple taste.

This is coming from a meat eater. I personally would start giving up meat only if they were similar substitutes like artificially meat or insects available.
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Grimace
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On some things, arguably. On others, not so much.
Quite a few of the foods vegans use much more than most other people are some of the most destructive foods to the environment that exist.
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Tyrant
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Quote:
 
Quite a few of the foods vegans use much more than most other people are some of the most destructive foods to the environment that exist.


Seriously? Mind bringing up a few examples.
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FireEel
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Vegans/Vegetarians get a +3 Karma everyday. That's really about it.

They suffer Ease of Eating -25% and Food Satisfaction -15% though, so I think it's a pretty bad trade-off.
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Black Ice
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Nope. They say were bad for eating meat yet they're eating the food the animals they don't want us to eat, eat. Leaving less for them. Pretty sure some people that deforest places are vegans too.

It's funny when you think about it.
Edited by Black Ice, Aug 2 2015, 12:58 PM.
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Wild
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I totally understand the reasoning and the stuff the meat and dairy industry does is just fcked up and really should in no way be endorsed. However it's ridiculously inconvenient when you can't grab a burger with friends, eat the same thing your family eats for dinner etc. and have to go out of your way to not only find good greens, but ones that are locally grown and environmentally sustainable.

It's just a stressful and exhausting lifestyle when everyone around you is an omnivore, I've tried, lasted three weeks, then someone invites you to a barbecue *sigh*. I applaud all those who've been able to do it and wish I was surrounded by like minded individuals who could help me out

I do think morally I'm a huge ahole here for putting my personal comforts ahead of animal welfare and the environment, hopefully someday insect substitutes will replace meat in markets and make it easier for everyone.

You should never walk around thinking you're "morally superior" to anyone tho, for any reason
Edited by Wild, Aug 2 2015, 01:32 PM.
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Molosser
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No, it's just ridiculous. You can't be morally superior just bc of what you eat.

I can tell vegans that if they love animals and nature as much as they claim then they should stop using electricity since generating electricity usually involves polluting the planet. And they should live in the wild naked (since the only way to obtain clothing in the wild is by skinning animals).

It's kinda funny if you ask me
Edited by Molosser, Aug 2 2015, 01:49 PM.
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Tyrant
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Quote:
 
I can tell vegans that if they love animals and nature as much as they claim then they should stop using electricity since generating electricity usually involves polluting the planet. And they should live in the wild naked (since the only way to obtain clothing in the wild is by skinning animals).


I don't think anyone is claiming that they're perfect saints, but it is clear that a modern vegan's lifestyle is far less harmful to a modern omnivores.

It's true that their electric powered homes displace animals but carnivores do that too while also supporting an industry where billions of cows, pigs, and chickens are cramped in tiny, excrement ridden, enclosures for the entirety of their lives.

I'm fairly sure in the future that are decedents will see our meat eating tendencies to be barbaric, assuming that the world doesn't go to s hit of course.
Edited by Tyrant, Aug 2 2015, 02:52 PM.
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ARM0R
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Black Ice
Aug 2 2015, 12:57 PM
Nope. They say were bad for eating meat yet they're eating the food the animals they don't want us to eat, eat. Leaving less for them.
It takes about 10kg of grain for 1 kilo of beef.
It takes about 1500 litres of water to produce 1 kilogram of wheat, and it takes an astounding 10 times more to produce the same amount of beef.

Your point is invalid.

Besides - it´s not about being "morally superior" - it´s about "reducing" the suffering of non-human animals. Being vegetarian/vegan does definetely reduce suffering and you don´t really miss anything going vegetarian imo.
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Mesopredator
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Do we need to discuss this over and over? This place is riddled with vegetarian topics.

You do not even necessary need to be fully vegetarian or vegan if you want to be ethical. You could eat meat once a week, instead of every day. The meat that you eat, you could pick the ones that aren't from factory farming or aren't that environmentally demanding (beef requires a lot of resources). You could also eat meat that is hunted, not hunted just to harvest but from (unavoidable) culling (that you support). Here in the Netherlands we have a lot of geese who are problematic on agricultural lands, and while I think that it is a problem of how agriculture works, I see no problem in eating the geese (but haven't done so yet). You could eat invasive species, and here I think that it won't or rarely eradicate the species, but you eat something that would likely have been killed anyway and perhaps it can minimize the impact on native species. Note, that I think it is problematic when a hunted species, native or non-native, becomes a industry. Industry in the sense that the meat it provides becomes not a byproduct that is sold, but an actual product.

There's also some effort being put into insects as a meat alternative. It is also less environmentally demanding. I haven't read any proof about it, but they might even be more healthier. It is proven that white meat, such as chicken, is healthier as red meat, such as beef and pork. In fact if you care about health, you might want to steer away from a lot of meat. There are meats that increase the likelihood of getting cancer; probably all meat, but some more as others such as red meat. Then there's fish, of which the fatty ones are particularly healthy. With fish you might want to know if it is sustainable fishery.

I myself have decided to eat mostly vegetarian, and not to consume milk products. Since then, I do eat chicken once in a while, also fish which I eat more often and have tried kangaroo and insects. Insects are not readily available and too expensive, otherwise I would consume them more often. My dietary choice has actually more to do with health than the environment. I do not consume milk because it is bad for my intestines, but I also do not support the milk industry. For a similar reason, I really like the idea of insects because it requires much less energy, and I think that insects are not that easily "hurt".

The most trouble I have is with locally produced food, which I consider to be better (less energy needed), but I do not like the local foods that much. I like cranberries, blueberries, grapes and raspberries which are produced locally, but not the popular apples, oranges and pears (which are also not that healthy anymore since they are bred for size and looks) and instead I prefer figs, bananas and dates which come from afar. Soy in particular, of which most of the meat substitutes are made of, is not locally produced but comes from China or South America (but that from South America goes mainly to the United States for cattle). Not to mention I like dark chocolate. Or take such foods as quinoa and Inca berries, which I do like, but comes from afar and apparently local people are deprived of those foods by companies.
Edited by Mesopredator, Aug 2 2015, 08:06 PM.
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Mauro20
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Just a question, why would insects be more acceptable as food than other animals? They are just as alive as a cow or chicken, and according to some studies, they can feel pain or something akin to it. Here is a good essay about it.
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Black Ice
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ARM0R
Aug 2 2015, 06:03 PM
Black Ice
Aug 2 2015, 12:57 PM
Nope. They say were bad for eating meat yet they're eating the food the animals they don't want us to eat, eat. Leaving less for them.
It takes about 10kg of grain for 1 kilo of beef.
It takes about 1500 litres of water to produce 1 kilogram of wheat, and it takes an astounding 10 times more to produce the same amount of beef.

Your point is invalid.

Besides - it´s not about being "morally superior" - it´s about "reducing" the suffering of non-human animals. Being vegetarian/vegan does definetely reduce suffering and you don´t really miss anything going vegetarian imo.
Nah its not because the fundamental issue is the same. The get on meat eaters because of what they eat. Yet they're doing the same thing in a sense.

If you really want to get technical however, Vegans aren't morally superior because they do just about everything regular people do. Only difference is their diet.
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Tyrant
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Quote:
 
Just a question, why would insects be more acceptable as food than other animals? They are just as alive as a cow or chicken, and according to some studies, they can feel pain or something akin to it. Here is a good essay about it.


They are better adapted at living in crowded conditions and raising them less damaging to the environment. Plus, killing an insect quickly isn't that hard.
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Mauro20
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Tyrant
Aug 3 2015, 03:24 AM
Quote:
 
Just a question, why would insects be more acceptable as food than other animals? They are just as alive as a cow or chicken, and according to some studies, they can feel pain or something akin to it. Here is a good essay about it.


They are better adapted at living in crowded conditions and raising them less damaging to the environment. Plus, killing an insect quickly isn't that hard.
I've heard crickets and roaches will start munching on each other in crowded conditions, I'd say it's not less stressful for them than it is for other creatures. I suppose you're right about the environment, though.
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