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| Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tarbosaurus bataar | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 3 2015, 06:09 PM (6,484 Views) | |
| Taipan | Sep 3 2015, 06:09 PM Post #1 |
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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons). ![]() Tarbosaurus bataar Tarbosaurus belongs in the subfamily Tyrannosaurinae within the family Tyrannosauridae, along with the earlier Daspletosaurus, the more recent Tyrannosaurus and possibly Alioramus. Animals in this subfamily are more closely related to Tyrannosaurus than to Albertosaurus and are known for their robust build with proportionally larger skulls and longer femurs than in the other subfamily, the Albertosaurinae. Like most known tyrannosaurids, Tarbosaurus was a large bipedal predator, weighing up to six tonnes and equipped with 60 large teeth. It had a unique locking mechanism in its lower jaw and the smallest forelimbs relative to body size of all tyrannosaurids, renowned for their disproportionately tiny, two-fingered forelimbs.The largest known Tarbosaurus skull is more than 1.3 meters (4 ft) long, larger than all other tyrannosaurids except Tyrannosaurus.[2] The skull was tall, like that of Tyrannosaurus, but not as wide, especially towards the rear. The unexpanded rear of the skull meant that Tarbosaurus eyes did not face directly forwards, suggesting that it lacked the binocular vision of Tyrannosaurus. Large fenestrae (openings) in the skull reduced its weight. Between 58 and 64 teeth lined its jaws, slightly more than in Tyrannosaurus but fewer than in smaller tyrannosaurids like Gorgosaurus and Alioramus. Most of its teeth were oval in cross section, although the teeth of the premaxilla at the tip of the upper jaw had a D-shaped cross section. This heterodonty is characteristic of the family. The longest teeth were in the maxilla (upper jaw bone), with crowns up to 85 millimeters (3.3 in) long. In the lower jaw, a ridge on the outer surface of the angular bone articulated with the rear of the dentary bone, creating a locking mechanism unique to Tarbosaurus and Alioramus. Other tyrannosaurids lacked this ridge and had more flexibility in the lower jaw. As with most dinosaurs, Tarbosaurus size estimates have varied through recent years. It could have been 10 meters long, with a weight of 4 to 5 - 7 tons. ![]()
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| bone crusher | Sep 4 2015, 12:00 AM Post #2 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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This could be a real showdown, of course we're talking about the updated weight estimate for our Spino which is 6-7 tons last time I checked. Compared to the more robustly built 5-7 tons Tarbosaurus it does seem like Spino would be a bit heavier on average. Spino's disadvantage would be mobility on land due to much shorter height, also most certainly a much weaker bite. If Tarbo could use its height advantage and get a good hold of Spino's rather slim neck then it could win the fight by crushing the spine. If Spino could somehow find a way to overpower Tarbo with its heavier weight then it could also kill it by sheer strength and huge claws. I think this is a 50/50 fight. |
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| Ceratodromeus | Sep 4 2015, 03:05 AM Post #3 |
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Aspiring herpetologist
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Tarbosaurus was probably the size of Daspletosaurus regularly. Iirc the largest is figured to be ~5-6 tons. I think I'd favor spinosaurus here. |
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| blaze | Sep 4 2015, 06:35 AM Post #4 |
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Carnivore
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^Probably smaller than that, the largest skull is ~15% larger than the next largest ones but is more elongated and is likely that skull size grows with positive allometry as we can see in Tyrannosaurus, the skull of Sue is also ~15% larger than those of other reasonably complete specimens, but Sue is not estimated to be over 50% heavier than them as suggested by isometric scaling but rather 20% or less. Following a similar pattern the largest Tarbosaurus would weight ~4-5 tonnes assuming the Daspletosaurus sized ones weight ~3-4 tonnes. |
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| Jaws | Oct 5 2015, 05:08 AM Post #5 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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spino wins in my opinion |
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| DinosaurFan95 | Oct 5 2015, 05:13 AM Post #6 |
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Omnivore
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Id go for Tarbosaurus, considering the recent revelation that Spinosaurus was a quadrepedial amphibious fish-hunter, it probibly didn't stand much of a chance against Tarbosaurus and its crushing jaws. Using its longer legs Tarby could easily dodge Spinos attacks and land a fatal blow to its neck. |
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| Spinodontosaurus | Oct 5 2015, 06:37 AM Post #7 |
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Herbivore
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Spinosaurus was probably still 50-60% larger than even the biggest Tarbosaurus specimens and nearly twice the size of more 'average' ones. It would also have been approximately the same height to the top of the illium, as large Tarbosaurus did not have particularly long legs themselves and were only ~10 meters long to begin with. Spinosaurus' significantly longer neck would mean its head was held much higher, even more so if it had a reared-up bipedal posture as Andrea Cau proposes, to the tune of 2 meters or more. |
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| Ceratodromeus | Oct 5 2015, 10:13 AM Post #8 |
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Aspiring herpetologist
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Spinosaurus should probably be favored here. |
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| DinosaurFan95 | Oct 6 2015, 12:34 AM Post #9 |
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Omnivore
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![]() These are not the jaws of a big game hunter, where as these are: ![]() Even a quick glance at the skulls will tell anyone which species would win. You spino fanboys need to get it through your own skulls that Spinosaurus was not a superpredator. It was a fisheater and occasional scavenger. Edited by DinosaurFan95, Oct 6 2015, 12:35 AM.
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| Jaws | Oct 6 2015, 05:56 AM Post #10 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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spino is still much bigger |
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| Spinodontosaurus | Oct 7 2015, 03:47 PM Post #11 |
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Herbivore
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At a glance at the skull of Teratophoneus is significantly more impressive than Spinosaurus' too, but that's before you realise that Spinosaurus was ten times the size of it. You cannot just look at a picture of their skulls and conclude everything from that, you have to look at everything in context. That is why I tried to establish that Spinosaurus was significantly larger than Tarbosaurus, because size is unquestionably a massive advantage especially when the difference is this great. Maybe a visual representation gets the point across better. ![]() Click text for full sized version. I didn't make any modifications to the Tyrannosauurs silhouette, which means its legs are a little too long for the specimens its representing, only by 2-3% though. Seeing as Scott Hartman's Sue is 12.3 meters long and 8,400 kg, we can estimate the larger Tarbosaurus at ~10 meters and ~4,500 kg, with the smaller one at ~9 meters and ~3,200 kg. The Spinosaurus is at the same scale as the one from Ibrahim et al. (2014) that they estimate at '6-7 tonnes'. The modifications I made to the silhouette will make it heavier though, as I removed the tucked in gastralia and applied much more flesh to the neck and lower third of the neural spines. I could probably have got away with a lot more flesh around the neck too. The smaller Tarbosaurus doesn't stand a chance as far as I'm concerned, but PIN 551-1 does. Edited by Spinodontosaurus, Oct 7 2015, 03:48 PM.
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| Grimace | Oct 7 2015, 04:56 PM Post #12 |
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Kleptoparasite
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It doesn't even matter which one has a skull better adapted for big game. Kind of like how an elephant seal isn't adapted for preying on large herbivores, but it'd still obliterate a lion. |
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| Ceratodromeus | Oct 7 2015, 05:14 PM Post #13 |
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Aspiring herpetologist
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You can't be serious? Well, in case you are, crocodiles would like to say hi. Also worth noting the vague"big game" you alluded to probably could use a definition. The aquatic fauna that is figured to have coexisted with spinosaurus wasn't particularly small either.
Really? Even with the rather massive size discrepancy? Either way, looking at the skulls of animals is a rather fallacious way of judging these scenarios. The size comparison posted by Spinodontosaurus illustrates why.
That first bit is irrelevant dribble that I'm not even going to bother with. Further, "super predator", synonymous with apex predator, is perfectly acceptable when defining Spinosaurus. Considering how large it was as an adult, it was likely at the top of the food chain with little to no predators of adults. You cannot seriously be claiming that this multi-ton predator was limited to fish and carrion. That's just nonsensical. An animal with adaptatons is not limited to a specific prey group an example of this, again, would be crocodilians; a good analogy would be False gharials, which have taken mid sized(~20kg) primates, and I'm fairly certain there are records of them taking deer. They can achieve this namely because they are so much larger then the prey animal, thus making it easier to overpower and kill. I await a valid reason as to why spinosaurus could not do this with mid to large sized herbivores. Oh, and the bit about scavenging applies to just about every carnivore that has walked the earth. Edited by Ceratodromeus, Oct 7 2015, 05:23 PM.
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| Wombatman | Oct 7 2015, 10:58 PM Post #14 |
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Herbivore
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There is people here that wouldnt agree with that. On the other hand Im having a hard time imagining how a Spinosaurus would fight on land. |
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| Grimace | Oct 7 2015, 11:09 PM Post #15 |
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Kleptoparasite
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>someone would argue for the lion pfffffffffft Also how are you having trouble imagining a spinosaurus fighting on land? Its not a mososaur or something, thats like me saying I can't imagine how a hippo would fight on land. Sure it's more at home in the water and has short legs, but that doesn't mean it isn't fully capable of coming out and obliterating you. |
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