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Mapusaurus roseae v Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Topic Started: Nov 13 2015, 10:14 PM (5,982 Views)
Taipan
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Mapusaurus roseae
Mapusaurus ('earth lizard') was a giant carnosaurian dinosaur from the early Late Cretaceous (Cenomanian stage) of what is now Argentina. It was similar in size to its close relative Giganotosaurus, with the largest known individuals estimated as over 12.6 metres (41 ft) in length* and weight estimates of approximately 3 metric tons to 5.5 metric tons. Mapusaurus was excavated between 1997 and 2001, by the Argentinian-Canadian Dinosaur Project, from an exposure of the Huincul Formation (Rio Limay Group, Cenomanian) at Canadon de Gato. It was described and named by paleontologists Rodolfo Coria and Phil Currie in 2006. The fossil remains of Mapusaurus were discovered in a bone bed containing at least seven individuals of various growth stages. Coria and Currie speculated that this may represent a long term, possibly coincidental accumulation of carcasses (some sort of predator trap) and may provide clues about Mapusaurus behavior. Other known theropod bone beds include the Allosaurus-dominated Cleveland Lloyd Dinosaur Quarry of Utah, an Albertosaurus bone bed from Alberta and a Daspletosaurus bone bed from Montana.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Jaws
Nov 13 2015, 03:57 PM
Mapusaurus versus spinosaurus please taipan
Edited by Taipan, Apr 8 2018, 08:56 PM.
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Ausar
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How is this NOT one-sided depending on where you place this fight?
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DarkGricer
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Ausar
Dec 29 2015, 11:49 PM
How is this NOT one-sided depending on where you place this fight?
Because only the very largest Mapusaurus is comparable to Spinosaurus in size. Most specimens are like 10 meters long.
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Ausar
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Blaze seems to indicate that *some* (ergo not exactly a few) specimens appear to be ~7t. That doesn't really sound like a max size.

At any rate, what I really meant to emphasize is that at similar sizes this would be quite a partial encounter depending on the environment.
Edited by Ausar, Dec 30 2015, 12:42 AM.
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Spinodontosaurus
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The Mapusaurus specimens were found in a big bone bed, representing quite a few separate individuals at least one of which is clearly a juvenile. It's not clear whether some of the say 10-11 meter stuff is adult or sub-adult; if large adults are >13 meters (possible, based on some of the remains) then even the <11 meter individuals could still be adults, but that doesn't mean they are.

Also if you subscribe to the Ibrahim et al. viewpoint that almost all spinosaurid fossils from the Cenomanian of North Africa belong to Spinosaurus then there is a large amount of size variation there too, with the S. aegyptiacus type specimen ending up as one of the larger specimens.
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Darker
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Giving it to Spino because in the most likely scenario here(shallow water to make it fair) it would easily bite down the Mapusaurus in the legs and it's probably got enough jaw strength to break a few bones, because it doesn't seem like Mapusaurus is built to fight these kinds of dinosaurs.
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Spartan
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How the hell does an animal look like that is built to fight Spinosaurus?
Really, stop talking out of your ass.
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Ausar
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Also, Spinosaurus clearly isn't going to be breaking bones in its maw. This isn't a f*cking tyrannosaurid, this is a spinosaurid with a cranial morphology far too structurally weak to withstand large bone-breaking bite forces that likewise lacks large amounts of room for jaw adductor muscles required for exerting such power. If Spinosaurus bit down with an output force strong enough to break Mapusaurus' leg bones, it would likely break its skull.
Edited by Ausar, Jan 4 2016, 02:56 AM.
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Darker
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Spartan
Jan 3 2016, 12:10 PM
How the hell does an animal look like that is built to fight Spinosaurus?
Really, stop talking out of your ass.


Didn't really understand your comment, to be honest.
I don't understand why you're so angry.

Ausar
Jan 3 2016, 10:00 PM
Also, Spinosaurus clearly isn't going to be breaking bones in its maw. This isn't a f*cking tyrannosaurid, this is a spinosaurid with a cranial morphology far too structurally weak to withstand large bone-breaking bite forces that likewise lacks large amounts of room for jaw adductor muscles required for exerting such power. If Spinosaurus bit down with an output force strong enough to break Mapusaurus' leg bones, it would likely break its skull.

I agree, but I don't think Spino's jaws are THAT weak. I mean Spino did hunt very large fish, and I doubt the Spino only used its claws to tear them apart.
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Ausar
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Spinosaurus' jaws would certainly have been powerful in absolute terms by virtue of its enormous size, but the point is that they were clearly weak for its size.

Many (if not most or even all) of the "fish" Spinosaurus hunted were still significantly smaller in size than itself, so the idea that they would have required Spinosaurus a notably powerful bite to dispatch them is moot.

Btw, Spinosaurus wouldn't have been tearing things apart with its claws, it would have been gripping with them.
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Grimace
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Ausar
Jan 4 2016, 10:40 AM

Btw, Spinosaurus wouldn't have been tearing things apart with its claws, it would have been gripping with them.
I think that is spino's biggest strength in a fight. None of the other giant theropods could use their arms to grab, and all of them would be pretty screwed if something was actually grabbing them in a position they couldn't bite effectively.
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Ausar
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Grimace
 
None of the other giant theropods could use their arms to grab
>The giant carnosaurs or Spinosaurus' fellow megalosauroids (among others) don't exist.

Even those that couldn't clutch and grip with their forelimbs (i.e. tyrannosaurids and MAYBE abelisaurids) wouldn't be at a disadvantage, as they could easily hold and grip with their jaws instead.

If by grabbing you mean the forelimbs will be the first thing touching the opponent, you're still laughably dead wrong; the only giant theropods that would be doing that would be the giant maniraptorans.
Grimace
 
and all of them would be pretty screwed if something was actually grabbing them in a position they couldn't bite effectively
And then Spinosaurus would dispatch its opponent with weaponry that's perfectly suited for effectively killing similar-sized, giant opponents...oh wait...
Edited by Ausar, Jan 15 2016, 12:35 PM.
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Snow Leopard
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The Mapusaurus would... Well, it's probably best not to think about what it would do to the Spinosaurus...
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Ceratodromeus
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Ausar
Jan 4 2016, 10:00 PM
Grimace
 
None of the other giant theropods could use their arms to grab
>The giant carnosaurs or Spinosaurus' fellow megalosauroids (among others) don't exist.

Even those that couldn't clutch and grip with their forelimbs (i.e. tyrannosaurids and MAYBE abelisaurids) wouldn't be at a disadvantage, as they could easily hold and grip with their jaws instead.

If by grabbing you mean the forelimbs will be the first thing touching the opponent, you're still laughably dead wrong; the only giant theropods that would be doing that would be the giant maniraptorans.
Grimace
 
and all of them would be pretty screwed if something was actually grabbing them in a position they couldn't bite effectively
And then Spinosaurus would dispatch its opponent with weaponry that's perfectly suited for effectively killing similar-sized, giant opponents...oh wait...
you read like, way too far into his post there.
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Snow Leopard
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Let's compare them

Bite force: Mapusaurus

Arm strength: Spinosaurus

Jaw Strength: Mapusarus

Intelligence: Mapusarus (It was a pack hunter)

Size: Spinosaurus

Muscle mass: Even (We don't know for sure)

Verdict: Mapusaurus > Spinosaurus
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Spartan
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What is the difference between bite force and jaw strength? I really don't think we can make conclusions about either one's intelligence. Mapusaurus also seems to be larger.
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