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| Myth of the "Deadly" Venomous Spiders by Rob | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 28 2016, 02:39 PM (729 Views) | |
| tigerburningbright | Apr 28 2016, 02:39 PM Post #1 |
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Herbivore
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As I have been saying for awhile....ALL venomous animals are very overrated with the big exception of Snakes (kill people/large animals all the time) and maybe Scorpions (kill a thousand or so people each year). Quite frankly Spiders, Box Jellyfish, Cone Snails, Stonefish etc are in a completely lesser league than Snakes or Scorpions and do not deserve their titles of "deadly" venomous animals. Saying a Venomous Spider/Box Jellyfish, Cone Snail etc is on the level of Venomous Snakes or even Scorpion is like saying a Cougar is on the level of a 500lb Lion or Tiger....just plain illogical and factually incorrect. Myth: Deadly Australian/Brazilian spiders October 27, 2015 Rod Crawford arachnology, spider myths, dangerous spider myths Myth: But there are really deadly spiders in Australia and Brazil. "Fact: The previous myth page, where I said that no spider species anywhere can properly be called "deadly," generated more comments than any other on the site. Most were from Australians who were certain their country at least had truly deadly spiders, including the Sydney Funnelweb Spider, Atrax robustus, and the Redback Spider, Latrodectus hasselti. Some also mentioned White-tailed Spiders, genus Lampona. Some comments were from Brazilians who put forward their Phoneutria wandering spiders as the world's deadliest. To start with, these people had misunderstood what I said. I never claimed that no human ever died from spider venom. What I said was, there is no species whose bite kills much more than 5% of its victims, nor any spider that kills within minutes, like in the movies. This applies just as strongly to Australia and Brazil as to the USA. According to the Australian Museum, the number of human deaths from authentic spider bites of any kind in Australia since 1979 has been zero. A recent published medical study followed 750 genuine Australian spider bite cases with identified spiders over 27 months (1999-2001). Only 44 bites (6%, mostly redback spider bites) had significant effects. Only 6 redback bites and 1 Atrax bite were serious enough to need antivenom. In no case was there any sign of allergic response to spider venom, and I have only seen one such case in North America in 44 years. Atrax robustus, the Sydney Funnelweb Spider, is often publicized as the "world's deadliest." Authentic medical information suggests otherwise. There have been no deaths (out of 30-40 bites per year) since antivenom was introduced in 1980. During the 53 year period 1927-1979 there were 13 or 14 known deaths, which would be a death rate of under one percent! Although one child died in 15 minutes, adult fatalities typically took 2-3 days. 90% of Atrax bites are judged not serious enough to need antivenom. Most serious spider bites in Australia are from the Redback, Latrodectus hasselti, a close relative of American black widows with very similar venom and effects. The recent study mentioned above tallied 56 genuine redback bites. Only 37 (66%) had any serious effects, and only 6 (11%) were serious enough to need antivenom. There have been no redback-caused human deaths in several decades. White-tailed spiders, Lampona cylindrata and relatives, have recently been blamed for Australian cases of severe necrotic lesions, but this connection was not based on enough evidence. The same authors who did the 750-bite study mentioned above, gathered a further 130 cases (aged 3-76 years) bitten by identified Lampona spiders. Local pain and itching were the only effects. No one developed any lesion or ulcer. White-tailed spiders are not guilty of doing any serious harm to humans; this page has more details. Brazilian Wandering Spiders (aranhas armadeiras), Phoneutria nigriventer, P. keyserlingi and P. fera, are sometimes said to have the world's most toxic spider venom – probably based on a well publicized study where mice were killed by intravenous injection of as little as 0.006 mg of venom. Since I'm a man, not a mouse, that doesn't worry me much. Authoritative sources state that over 7,000 authentic cases of human bites from these spiders have been recorded, with only around 10 known deaths, and about 2% of cases serious enough to need antivenom. So despite the surprisingly large number of bites, this spider is not exactly public enemy number one either. Most medical conditions blamed on spiders by physicians lack confirmation that any actual spider was involved in the case. Spider bites of all kinds are rare events (as opposed to other bites and medical conditions that get wrongly blamed on spiders). Although it is possible for a spider bite to cause death, that is a very unlikely outcome and does not happen in enough cases to justify calling any spider "deadly." http://www.burkemuseum.org/blog/myth-deadly-australianbrazilian-spiders Edited by tigerburningbright, Apr 28 2016, 02:46 PM.
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| SquamataOrthoptera | Dec 22 2016, 11:50 AM Post #2 |
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15 year old keyboard warrior!
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Wow, I dint realize Funnel Web venom took that long to kill a Person. And I heard hot water is effective at destroying the toxins of a Stone Fish, so I would assume its not the most potent of venoms. But Cone Snails and Box Jelly fish? Really? Im not exactly sure about Cone Fish but from what I can tell Box jellyfish are absolutly brutal in stings. |
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| Finderskeepers | Dec 22 2016, 12:14 PM Post #3 |
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Omnivore
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Now that has got to be a lie. Cone snail I can understand but box jelly? Absolutely not. They're so deadly the australian government has seen fit to put up warnings on beaches and close them when too many appear. How can you say its not in the venomous snake league? At the very least the subspecies Irukandji can cause you enormous unfathomable pain if not death. |
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| SquamataOrthoptera | Dec 22 2016, 12:51 PM Post #4 |
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15 year old keyboard warrior!
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Drop for Drop, a Sea Kraits venom is probably several leagues ahead of the Jellyfish, but their small Animals with small amount of venom. I heard it can kill in less then 10 minutes, and are the most venemous Snake in the world, not sure if its true, but even still their venom is insane. This Snake known as the Stokes Sea Snake, is probably the most toxic Animal alive tbh. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3300006/Deadly-sea-snake-huge-fangs-no-anti-venom-washes-ALIVE-Manly-beach-Sydney-3-000kms-natural-habitat.html Large fangs, highly venemous, large amounts of venom, and aggressive, not exactly good. Edited by SquamataOrthoptera, Dec 22 2016, 12:57 PM.
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| tigerburningbright | Dec 22 2016, 06:02 PM Post #5 |
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Herbivore
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The vast majority of Chironex Fleckeri stings in Humans are mild (many don't even require hospitalization...and many that do require hospitalization only require a short overnight stay with supportive treatment only)...We know this from various studies on their Chironex stings that have been reviewed and published.....There is no such thing as some general "Most Venomous Animal in the world" since it would depend entirely on what specific animal the venom was tested on (a venom that is highly toxic to one animal may be not very toxic to another animal etc etc etc).....But at least for Humans (based on the studies about Chironex stings)....Chironex Fleckeri doesn't seem to be anywhere near the most dangerous animal in the world....or even that "deadly" in general.... Pain is rather subjective and varies from person to person.....But I can posts pictures of Snakebites that (at least appear to) absolutely crush anything that the Irukandji/Jellyfish sting can do when it comes to pain....Venom causing Necrosis (look it up if you don't know what it is) is generally very uncommon in most other venoms (Spider/Jellyfish/Scorpion/Fish etc etc)....but quite common in certain Snake species/Snake Families venom......Various Vipers/Pit Vipers and Spitting Cobras are absolutely unrivaled when it comes to causing necrosis.... I remember (vaguely) reading a study on Irukandji Syndrome and the conclusion (if I remember correctly) is that mostly involved mild/moderate symptoms (like the Chironex Fleckeri).... Their is no such thing as some general "Most Venomous/Most Toxic" creature in the world....That is a myth....In reality all animals (and likely even individual animals in the SAME species) react differently to different toxins/venoms and thus their is only the Most Venomous Animals in the world to a SPECIFIC animal.... Basically the Snake/Scorpion/Jellyfish with the most drop for drop potent venom to Cats may have the 25th most drop for drop venom to Raccoons and the 40th most drop for drop venom to Dogs etc etc etc....There is also likely some variation within each species in how it reacts to any given Venom....Just as some Humans are more vulnerable to the Flu virus or react more to Pencilin than other Humans....Some Cats/Dogs/Humans etc would react more to Snake Venom than other Cats/Dogs/Humans do..... So what is the most drop for drop toxic Venom to Humans????...Well I have some guesses (and they are ONLY guesses....since nobody knows for sure since Snake venom has never been tested in any large scale way on Humans) based on what I have read from published studies....Most types of Land Kraits (Bungarus) are definitely near the top...as are certain types of Cobras....Taipans.....Black Mambas etc etc... I would guess (and it's just a guess) that Land Kraits have more toxic drop for drop venom to Humans than Sea Kraits do..... The most Painful bites (not generally deadly, but the ones causing the most extreme pain) would include Fer De Lance Snakes, Puff Adders, Certain Spitting Cobras, Certain Rattlesnakes, Gaboon Vipers etc....Basically any large Viper/Pit Viper with Tissue Destroying Venoms (Spitting Cobras being one of the only Elapids with Tissue Destroying Venom aswell).... Edited by tigerburningbright, Dec 22 2016, 06:23 PM.
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| SquamataOrthoptera | Dec 23 2016, 12:10 AM Post #6 |
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15 year old keyboard warrior!
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I was speaking on toxicity to Humans. From what I can tell, Sea Snakes venom in general is incredibally toxic and lethal to Humans, drop for drop atleast. |
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| Taipan | Jan 18 2017, 01:17 PM Post #7 |
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Administrator
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Kind of relates to this topic: Humble bee among Australia's most lethal Date: January 17, 2017 Source: University of Melbourne An Australian-first national analysis of 13 years' data on bites and stings from venomous creatures reveals Australia's towns and cities are a hot-spot for encounters. The stereotype-busting research also shows that of all Australia's venomous creatures, it is bees and other insects -- not snakes, spiders, or jellyfish -- that pose the biggest public health threat. Including fatalities, venomous stings and bites resulted in almost 42,000 hospitalizations over the study period. Bees and wasps were responsible for just over one-third (33%) of hospital admissions, followed by spider bites (30%) and snake bites (15%). Overall, 64 people were killed by a venomous sting or bite, with more than half of these deaths (34) due to an allergic reaction to an insect bite that caused anaphylactic shock. Snake bites caused 27 deaths. Importantly, snake bite envenoming caused nearly twice as many deaths per hospital admission than other venomous creatures, making snake bite one of the most important venomous injuries to address. Bees and wasps killed 27 people, Only one case of a beekeeper and one case of a snake catcher recorded. Tick bites caused three deaths and ant bites another two. And box jellyfish killed three people. There were two unknown insects. No spider bite fatalities were registered. Public health expert at the Australian Venom Unit at the University of Melbourne, Dr Ronelle Welton, led the study, published in the Internal Medicine Journal. She says she was surprised to find so many deaths and hospitalisations up and down the populated coastal areas of Australia. "More than half of deaths happened at home, and almost two-thirds (64%) occurred, not in the isolated areas we might expect, but rather, in major cities and inner-regional areas where healthcare is readily accessible," she said. Researchers believe one of the reasons that anaphylaxis from insect bites and stings has proven deadly may be because people are complacent in seeking medical attention and anaphylaxis can kill quickly. While three-quarters of snakebite fatalities at least made it to hospital, only 44 per cent of people who died from an allergic reaction to an insect sting got to hospital. "Perhaps it's because bees are so innocuous that most people don't really fear them in the same way they fear snakes," Dr Welton says. "Without having a previous history of allergy, you might get bitten and although nothing happens the first time, you've still developed an allergic sensitivity." Western Australia and South Australia were hot spots for stings and bites, and there were no deaths recorded in Tasmania over the decade. Bites and stings were much more likely to occur between April to October. Dr Welton believes the current national guidelines for prevention and treatment of envenoming is inadequate because we actually know very little about the health burden of venomous creatures. "From a public health perspective, we can't make informed decisions until we have a much clearer picture about what's going on," she says. "For example, in South Australia, there are a lot more stings and anaphylaxis from bees. In Queensland there are more snake bites. In Tasmania, their biggest issue is jumper ant anaphylaxis. So the clinical management needs to vary for each state and territory." Story Source: University of Melbourne. "Humble bee among Australia's most lethal." ScienceDaily. www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/01/170117101430.htm (accessed January 17, 2017). Journal Reference: Ronelle E Welton, David J Williams, Danny Liew. Injury trends from envenoming in Australia, 2000-2013. Internal Medicine Journal, 2016; DOI: 10.1111/imj.13297 Abstract Background This study provides the first contemporary epidemiological insight into venomous injuries based on demographics and geography in Australia in the timeframe 2000-2013. Methods Analysis of national hospitalisation and mortality data to examine the incidence of injury and death due to envenoming in Australia. Rates were calculated using the intercensal population for all Australian age groups. Results Over the study period, deaths were due to an anaphylactic event (0.16 per 100 000), snake envenoming (0.13 per 100 000) or box jellyfish envenoming (0.01 per 100 000). Only 44% of cases involving anaphylaxis reached medical care prior to death, compared to 74% of those envenomed by snakes. Over half of all deaths (52%) occurred at home, and 64% of these occurred within a major city or inner regional area, with 48% of anaphylaxis deaths work related. Hospital admission rates of 199 per 100 000 persons over the 11 years were caused by contact with wasps or bees (31%), spiders (30%) and snakes (15%) with a predominate age range of 30-44 years. Conclusions The greatest burden of injury due to envenoming was caused by arthropods and snakes. Causes of death led by anaphylaxis subsequent to an arthropod bite or sting, followed by death from snake envenoming. Over half the incidence resulting in death occurred at home, in areas where health care is accessible. Operational data routinely collected is informative, with variations of injury incidence between States and Territories indicating a need for a more localised approach to management of this injury. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/imj.13297/abstract;jsessionid=89E445CC1F12B28BEB0C00C825E73DF5.f03t02 |
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