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Successfulness of ABB in Africa
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Medium 2 (28.6%)
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Total Votes: 7
How well would american black bears do in Africa?
Topic Started: Dec 15 2016, 10:11 PM (1,075 Views)
Finderskeepers
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Debate please.
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Mammuthus
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They'd over heat.

But if they didn't mange to over heat they'd do okay. Large Males would dominate over Leopards, Cheetahs, Wild Dogs and small groups of Hyenas, the main threat would be large prides of Lions. I'am pretty sure a Large Male Bear would be too much for a Lioness and maybe even a Male Lion but large prides would overwhelm a Black Bear. As for prey well..the Bear would struggle to catch them, prey Animals in Africa tend to be quite fast and agile and could probably out run a Black Bear (even tho they are fast), and the prey that isn't so fast are too big and only a Large Male would stand a chance of taking them down.
Edited by Mammuthus, Dec 16 2016, 01:45 AM.
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Nergigante
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Its gonna overheat, it literally has two coats of fur that are black, the bear also has blubber.
Edited by Nergigante, Dec 16 2016, 05:10 AM.
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Thalanx
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If we're not talking exclusively about sub-Saharan Africa, then wouldn't black bears occupy the niche of Atlas bears in north Africa, seeing as how Atlas bears are extinct?
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Grazier
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Africa is a big place, why is everyone saying they'd overheat? They could live 3000 metres above sea level in the rwenzori mountains in uganda, gets below freezing and never gets hot, certainly not as hot as parts of the black bears natural range in NA.
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tigerburningbright
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Mammuthus
Dec 16 2016, 01:43 AM
They'd over heat.

But if they didn't mange to over heat they'd do okay. Large Males would dominate over Leopards, Cheetahs, Wild Dogs and small groups of Hyenas, the main threat would be large prides of Lions. I'am pretty sure a Large Male Bear would be too much for a Lioness and maybe even a Male Lion but large prides would overwhelm a Black Bear. As for prey well..the Bear would struggle to catch them, prey Animals in Africa tend to be quite fast and agile and could probably out run a Black Bear (even tho they are fast), and the prey that isn't so fast are too big and only a Large Male would stand a chance of taking them down.
A good sized Male American Black Bear of 300-350lbs+ would have a decent chance in a fight to the death with a Lioness (not to mention the Male vs Female fight advantage), but I wouldn't be surprised if even a lone Lioness could chase one off/dominate one in most interactions (since fights to the death are almost never realistic scenarios).....

The majority of American Black Bear populations (Their are likely some sub-populations in certain areas that produce more aggressive Black Bears) are not particularly aggressive at all....They are frequently dominated/chased away even by smaller sub Adult-Grizzly Bears (and Black Bears can approach the same sizes as Grizzly Bears in some areas)...Charlie Russell the "Bear Man" of Alaska who fed Bears in his backyard for years....even stated on his show that even sub Adult Grizzlies can dominate Adult Black Bears around food....

From what I have seen Asian Bears (Sloth Bears, Sun Bears, Asian Black bears etc) and Brown Bears (of most varieties) are the fighter of the Bear World....Polar Bears and American Black Bears seem much more shy/submissive even when they can get huge in size (1000lb Male Polar Bears are frequently chased off of kills/dominated by 350lb Barren Ground Grizzlies)....They just seem to be much more submissive creatures in general compared to Asian Bears and Brown Bears worldwide....I think the comparable sized Sloth Bear has much more fight in him than most American Black Bears seem to have.....

A huge American Black of 550-600+lbs would win over a Male Lion....but the average American Black Bear wouldn't and I expect a Male Lion to be dominant over the majority of Male Black Bears....

Edited by tigerburningbright, Dec 18 2016, 07:07 PM.
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Mammuthus
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tigerburningbright
Dec 18 2016, 06:58 PM
A good sized Male American Black Bear of 300-350lbs+ would have a decent chance in a fight to the death with a Lioness (not to mention the Male vs Female fight advantage), but I wouldn't be surprised if even a lone Lioness could chase one off/dominate one in most interactions (since fights to the death are almost never realistic scenarios).....


A huge American Black of 550-600+lbs would win over a Male Lion....but the average American Black Bear wouldn't and I expect a Male Lion to be dominant over the majority of Male Black Bears....

Yeh i wasn't talking about a 350lbs Black Bear, i was talking about a 550lbs+ one.
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tigerburningbright
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Mammuthus
Dec 18 2016, 07:13 PM
tigerburningbright
Dec 18 2016, 06:58 PM
A good sized Male American Black Bear of 300-350lbs+ would have a decent chance in a fight to the death with a Lioness (not to mention the Male vs Female fight advantage), but I wouldn't be surprised if even a lone Lioness could chase one off/dominate one in most interactions (since fights to the death are almost never realistic scenarios).....


A huge American Black of 550-600+lbs would win over a Male Lion....but the average American Black Bear wouldn't and I expect a Male Lion to be dominant over the majority of Male Black Bears....

Yeh i wasn't talking about a 350lbs Black Bear, i was talking about a 550lbs+ one.
A 550lb+ Black Bear would obviously destroy any Lioness in a fight to the death....


Most Male Black Bears are much smaller than that on average and are fairly comparable to a Lioness in size (through some Male Black Bears can actually get 650-700+lbs and huge in certain areas in extreme rare cases)...

My point is just that the animal that would win a fight to the death isn't always the animal the dominates or bullies the other....

Since the topic was addressing how a Black Bear would do in Africa I figured the "fight to the death" question isn't of much relevance/importance....and what is more important is how other animals would perceive the Black Bear and vice verse....American Black Bears successfully pirate Wolf and Cougar kills...so I assume Leopards, Cheetahs, and small clans of Hyenas could get dominated and have kills taken from them....But I'm not so sure about a good sized Lioness....

From what I have seen Polar Bears/American Black Bears tend to lack the aggressive attitude of Asian Bears (like the notoriously feisty and aggressive Sloth Bear) and Brown Bears...
Edited by tigerburningbright, Dec 18 2016, 07:28 PM.
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Grazier
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Polar bears are just a variety of brown bear, just about the biggest and baddest. I don't see why they'd be particularly shy and wussy and don't think I believe it. I do recall hearing before about reports of some deferring to grizzlies on kills but I'd want more thorough and comprehensive evidence to jump to any conclusions, especially when otherwise they seem very bold and confident as the supreme rulers of their domain.
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Thalanx
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Grazier
Dec 18 2016, 07:57 PM
Polar bears are just a variety of brown bear, just about the biggest and baddest.
I thought polar bears being a variety of brown bear was unconfirmed
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Mammuthus
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tigerburningbright
Dec 18 2016, 07:27 PM
A 550lb+ Black Bear would obviously destroy any Lioness in a fight to the death....



Obviously, and provided with enough time to get used to the local competition a Large Male (630lbs+) could take down a Male Lion.

Quote:
 
Most Male Black Bears are much smaller than that on average and are fairly comparable to a Lioness in size (through some Male Black Bears can actually get 650-700+lbs and huge in certain areas in extreme rare cases)...


I'am fully aware that Black Bears tend to be around the size of Lionesses, but i wasn't talking about an average Black Bear i was talking about a large Male Bear.

Quote:
 
My point is just that the animal that would win a fight to the death isn't always the animal the dominates or bullies the other....


Yes i agree but when did i mention anything about the Bear bullying the Lion? All i said was that a huge Male (630lbs +) would overwhelm a Lion. Not that it would bully it.
Edited by Mammuthus, Dec 18 2016, 11:27 PM.
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LeopardNimr
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can't really picture it
but they'd win over hyenas wild dogs and cheetahs
a leopard and a lion will be about right to kill it.
i don't really know how about hunting...
what he will eat?
it won't really chase any thing.
and the coat is horrible for the plains
and the sahara
only the rain forest will be about right to live in
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Thalanx
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Why does everyone else seem to think that the portion of Africa north of the Sahara doesn't exist
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Grazier
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Thalanx
Dec 20 2016, 06:25 AM
Why does everyone else seem to think that the portion of Africa north of the Sahara doesn't exist
Well I'd even understand excluding north Africa as it's basically part of the middle east in a lot of ways, but even sub Saharan Africa varies a lot, if we're just talking serenghetti plains that should have been specified. As I said I'd choose the rwenzori mountains as their ideal location, above even north Africa.
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Finderskeepers
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Okay I see youse points. How about an Asian Black Bear? How would that do?
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