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Why did prey dinosaurs mainly evolve tail weaponry as defenses against predators
Topic Started: Dec 21 2016, 01:51 PM (2,203 Views)
Palaeoscincus
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Stegosaurs, ankylosaurs and certain sauropods evolved to have their tails be weapons, but tail weaponry is very rare in other animal groups. Only some glyptodonts have evolved it when it comes to terrestrial vertebrates. So why did many dinosaur groups evolve it and and other groups not? Were predatory theropods mainly attacking from the back?

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Carnotaur
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Hmmm...my bet is that they evolved such weapons because they didn't had anything on the front,differently from,say,a Triceratops.
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Nergigante
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I don't consider animals with small heads to put head mounted weaponry such as horns or tusks to good use, and if they do not flexible limbs, then weaponry such as claws or at least being capable of gripping should not be that useful, if they have thick long flexible tails that have a good reach, then why not?
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Scalesofanubis
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Ever deal with an angry iguana?
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Palaeoscincus
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^ No. Would that answer my question?
And Mastodon, I dont think all animals with horn weapons have really big head, though its probably bigger then stegosaurs or ankylosaurs admittedly. So in that case, why did those dinosaurs evolve small heads? Any advantage to that? Did theropods favor the back as the one place to attack? I'm just curious about this, but see this thread didnt attract much interest.
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Ceratodromeus
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Lots of animals will use their tail for defense.
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Soopairik
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Some animals perhaps evolved to have flexible tails. Flexible tails must have a use, and so therefore evolution made them whip-like, or have spikes or clubs at the end for defensive use.
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Palaeoscincus
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Ceratodromeus
Dec 30 2016, 02:39 PM
Lots of animals will use their tail for defense.
I forgot about the mastigure lizards. But the other lizards dont seem to use their tails as primary weapons, they still bite mostly. And they havent evolved the impressive ornament like in thyreophora. And other then those what other land animals use their tails as weapons?
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DinosaurFan95
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What is interesting is that, in general, Thyreophoran tail clubs got bigger over evolutionary time, starting as small lumps and gradually becoming massive bowling ball-sized clubs. Considering the extreme specializations of Thyreophora as a whole for defense, including "gauntlets" of bone around the lower arms and bone-infused eyelids, I think its safe to say that tail clubs evolved almost exclusively as weapons, rather than as objects for sexual attraction.

of course with no living Thyreophorans for study, it is truly hard to say just what exactly the tail clubs were used for. Other theories are that they were used in competition for mates, and as "faux heads" to confuse predators. I have seen a few pieces of Paleoart where the tail club has markings resembling eyes, with the idea being that a predator, in a rush to bite the head, would make a mistake and get a mouthful of boney tail instead.
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Ceratodromeus
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Palaeoscincus
Jan 16 2017, 02:38 PM
Ceratodromeus
Dec 30 2016, 02:39 PM
Lots of animals will use their tail for defense.
I forgot about the mastigure lizards. But the other lizards dont seem to use their tails as primary weapons, they still bite mostly. And they havent evolved the impressive ornament like in thyreophora. And other then those what other land animals use their tails as weapons?
Quote:
 
I forgot about the mastigure lizards. But the other lizards dont seem to use their tails as primary weapons, they still bite mostly.

Spined tails in lizards are used as an antipredatory mechanism in which the lizard will wedge itself into a crevice and make it difficult to displodge them. Varanids will use their tails as defense -- yes, in some this is a primary defensive response. Some don't like to bite, but will do so if pressed.

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And other then those what other land animals use their tails as weapons?

Scorpions; if you want to get into marine life stingrays.
Edited by Ceratodromeus, Mar 9 2017, 10:13 AM.
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Wyvax
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Think about most mammals, how bulky and muscular do their tails tend to be? Not very. They typically have relatively short tails, especially among large herbivores. They don't need them for balancing out their forequarters unlike most dinosaurs, as their center of balance is more towards their gut rather than their hips, so their tails are basically just flyswatters and trying to weaponize a flyswatter doesn't work out to well. (Just ask the caveman at the beginning of the movie Minions. lol ) Dinosaurs on the other hand require longer tails to counterbalance their weight. (Most of them.) So if you've got a big, bulky, baseball bat of a tail already why not weaponize it into a monstrous, medieval, mace of a tail??
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Grazier
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Small heads is one reason. Also literally all dinosaurs descend from bipedal archosaurs, so none of the quadropedal dinosaurs were good runners. They were almost like you and me trying to run around on all fours, this is why you'll note there are no quadropedal predatory dinosaurs, there's no way they could run anything down. So they weren't good at running away and weren't good at charging, all that and the small heads makes you wonder why the ceratopsians existed at all, they must have evolved to push the limits of quadropedal running in dinosaurs and also been social to form hunkered down rosette defensive formations. A tail defense makes much more sense for dinosaurs.
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Ausar
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Quote:
 
Also literally all dinosaurs descend from bipedal archosaurs, so none of the quadropedal dinosaurs were good runners. They were almost like you and me trying to run around on all fours, this is why you'll note there are no quadropedal predatory dinosaurs, there's no way they could run anything down.
That's not how it works and not true.
Edited by Ausar, Mar 10 2017, 05:39 AM.
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Grazier
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Show me a quadropedal predatory dinosaur then, or any swift quadropedal dinosaur.
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Ausar
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Ceratopsids are believed had locomotor capabilities on par with those of rhinos. The smaller protoceratopsids are also believed to have been swift animals (link). We could likely say the same for other quadrupedal ceratopsians other than those in the two aforementioned families.

Flexed limbed quadrupedal ornithopods (like hadrosaurs and other iguanodonts) should have been competent runners as well.
Edited by Ausar, Mar 10 2017, 11:38 AM.
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