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Tilikum, the SeaWorld orca who killed his trainer, has died
Topic Started: Jan 7 2017, 07:18 AM (2,612 Views)
Jinfengopteryx
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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Grazier
Jan 8 2017, 06:16 AM
And yes for the record I think what is natural is holy, closest thing we have.
In this case, we have to examine the appeal to nature a bit further.

It is first of all far from clear what "natural" even means. It is usually meant to mean "everything uninfluenced by humans" in which case applying it to human ethics is absurd since human behavior has a lot to do with humans. Maybe it is part of the human nature to be idealistic in which case there is nothing wrong with behaving that way.
Or does natural simply mean whatever the majority of species does?
If so, are there any other species that act against nature's will? Is it even possible for a non-human to do so or is everything they do per definition natural? Unless you can define what "natural" means, it is little more than loaded language. In case nature refers to everything other than humans, it basically means "humans ought to behave like non-humans" which probably sounds very unreasonable without the rhetoric efficiency of "nature". If "nature" includes humans, "humans ought to behave natural" can be paraphrased "humans ought to behave as they do" which makes noone wiser.
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Wyvax
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If his trainer's death was truly accidental (on par with a big dog killing a little dog by playing to rough), then it is nothing more than an accident and I don't hold anything against the orca at all. The case with the chimpanzee however, all precautions were taken by the park staff, the problem wasn't them, it was the animal itself: Frodo was simply vicious, even for aggressive male chimp standards. It's one thing to let an animal behave however it pleases to others, but they let it get away with attacking people three times, and each time it got off scottfree, it reinforced that that behavior was okay and it became bolder. 1st attack: man escaped with minor injuries. 2nd attack: Jane Goodall cames extremely close to getting her neck broken. (She later wouldn't go in without guards.) 3rd attack: a child was stolen, killed and eaten. You can probably let the first one slide on possible unknown triggers, the second should have risen major alarms, and the last one is blatant opportunistic predatory behavior, and if it were any other animal it would have been shot on sight afterwards. It's not about vengeance, it's all about the collective responsibility to keep others safe. Because action wasn't taken after the second incident, a person died. Action wasn't even taken after that, and no matter the precautions, it is still good fortune that no more tragedies occurred. I cite the lack of action as willful negligence, no matter what kind of animal is involved.
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Thalassophoneus
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Pelagic Killer
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Wyvax
Jan 8 2017, 07:17 AM
If his trainer's death was truly accidental (on par with a big dog killing a little dog by playing to rough), then it is nothing more than an accident and I don't hold anything against the orca at all. The case with the chimpanzee however, all precautions were taken by the park staff, the problem wasn't them, it was the animal itself: Frodo was simply vicious, even for aggressive male chimp standards. It's one thing to let an animal behave however it pleases to others, but they let it get away with attacking people three times, and each time it got off scottfree, it reinforced that that behavior was okay and it became bolder. 1st attack: man escaped with minor injuries. 2nd attack: Jane Goodall cames extremely close to getting her neck broken. (She later wouldn't go in without guards.) 3rd attack: a child was stolen, killed and eaten. You can probably let the first one slide on possible unknown triggers, the second should have risen major alarms, and the last one is blatant opportunistic predatory behavior, and if it were any other animal it would have been shot on sight afterwards. It's not about vengeance, it's all about the collective responsibility to keep others safe. Because action wasn't taken after the second incident, a person died. Action wasn't even taken after that, and no matter the precautions, it is still good fortune that no more tragedies occurred. I cite the lack of action as willful negligence, no matter what kind of animal is involved.
That's exactly the thing. If he was vicious stricter safety measures should be taken.

Tilikum was generally described as docile in his behavior. He was submissive to the females, peacefull to his trainers and very good with calves like Trua or Malia. All of us, his fans, are sad dueto his loss but I am sure that the most devastated ones must be his trainers.
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Mammuthus
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Thalassophoneus
Jan 8 2017, 07:55 AM


Tilikum was generally described as docile in his behavior. He was submissive to the females, peacefull to his trainers and very good with calves like Trua or Malia. All of us, his fans, are sad dueto his loss but I am sure that the most devastated ones must be his trainers.
You seem to know your stuff about Tilikum, so can i ask you what he was like to the general public?
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Thalassophoneus
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Mammuthus
Jan 8 2017, 08:01 AM
Thalassophoneus
Jan 8 2017, 07:55 AM


Tilikum was generally described as docile in his behavior. He was submissive to the females, peacefull to his trainers and very good with calves like Trua or Malia. All of us, his fans, are sad dueto his loss but I am sure that the most devastated ones must be his trainers.
You seem to know your stuff about Tilikum, so can i ask you what he was like to the general public?
I suppose that at times his attention would be attracted by people in the underwater viewing area. Adult killer whales generally have that less than young ones. You can see here Ulises doing this. Uises is older than Tilikum, the oldest captive male Orca.



He is doing something in this video, which is from SeaWorld's chanel.



Off course the whales don't come in direct contact with the public really much. They may sometimes be used in demonstrations to visitors, where both them and the interacting visitors are guided by the trainers. It is very well known that Tilikum once came in direct contact to a visitor, Daniel P. Dukes, who learnt the risks of entering a bull killer whale's tank and not exiting before it realizes that you are not a trainer.
Edited by Thalassophoneus, Jan 8 2017, 09:31 AM.
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Taipan
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Carnoferox
Jan 7 2017, 07:18 AM
word word word word word


The purpose of the word minimum per post is to encourage members to actually say something, hopefully relevant, rather than mindlessly writing 'word' 5 times. Do not do that again. If you are struggling to think of 5 words to write in a post, dont post.

Edited by Taipan, Jan 8 2017, 01:56 PM.
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Thalassophoneus
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Taipan
Jan 8 2017, 01:56 PM
Carnoferox
Jan 7 2017, 07:18 AM
word word word word word


The purpose of the word minimum per post is to encourage members to actually say something, hopefully relevant, rather than mindlessly writing 'word' 5 times. Do not do that again. If you are struggling to think of 5 words to write in a post, dont post.

But that can't always happen. Few words may be enough even in cases where we say something relevant to the discussion. Here, for example, Carnoferox simply came to post the news.
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Taipan
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Thalassophoneus
Jan 8 2017, 07:18 PM
But that can't always happen.


Yes it can, otherwise the post will be deleted for the reasons stated in my previous post. End of discussion.



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Ceph
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Why try to push this Thalass? It's a simple rule and your not even the member who was addressed. If you've made post with "word" in them and nothing was said just be happy about it. Once upon a time we had a huge problem with one and two word response. They did nothing to stimulate conversation or move the thread forward. Unfortunately it got to a point where a word limit became necessary. It encourages thought and intelligent response, as opposed to 90 post in one thread that only say "tiger wins" or "yes". If this is something you can't deal with, then maybe your exactly the kind of poster that needs to be filtered out. If you can't structure a 5 word response, this forum may be to advanced for you.
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Soopairik
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Well then, it looks like Sea World will lose a lot of money, now that it has stopped its show. I wonder what kind of new attraction they're going to have to replace the killer whale one.
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Thalassophoneus
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Soup
Jan 9 2017, 06:43 AM
Well then, it looks like Sea World will lose a lot of money, now that it has stopped its show. I wonder what kind of new attraction they're going to have to replace the killer whale one.
They are planning to start some short of "educative natural encounters" with their whales. That's great, but personally I would favor the restart of their breeding program.
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Vivyx
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Felines, sharks, birds, arthropods
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A sad loss of an incredible animal...
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Thalassophoneus
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Pelagic Killer
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Oh my goodness...
This video should be watched.

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