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predator-prey relationship; birds
Topic Started: Jan 29 2017, 09:41 AM (532 Views)
Birdsofprey123
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Autotrophic Organism
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Can a Peregrine falcon catch a Spine tailed Swift more often than not
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Grazier
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No, or spine tailed swifts would be extinct.
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Taipan
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Grazier
Jan 29 2017, 12:57 PM
No, or spine tailed swifts would be extinct.


That's wrong. Many prey animals are captured at a success rate higher than 50% and are not extinct. In a natural ecosystem factors such as population size, breeding rate, clutch size, predators to prey ratio etc. ensure that species numbers remain viable and healthy.

Its when humans mess up those factors that problems occur.


Edited by Taipan, Jan 29 2017, 08:52 PM.
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Grazier
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You have to also factor in the selective methods of the predator, choosing it's time to strike and which target to strike, I believe these factors make some success rates significantly higher than they would be if you just placed the predator in a predator/prey contest with a prime specimen of their prey animal on anything close to an even playing field. The prey animal ALWAYS naturally has the advantage in such conditions. One way or another, your mentioned factors not withstanding. I don't argue with them, they just aren't enough to overcome the fact that prey must have the advantage to be viable. Maybe for some prey species that release billions of young like spores into the wind and then said young congregate in massive swarms, even then you have to say by this technique the prey animal has an advantage, it will most likely "win" by hiding amongst thousands of it's bretheren.

Swifts are faster than falcons BTW, even in a straight horizontal line, much much faster at zig zagging and turning. Falcons are faster in a dive, and this is how they overcome the swift's advantage, occasionally. Even allowing the falcon to fly up and dive down on the swift, the swift should definitely be favoured to most likely evade capture most of the time. Even pigeons are favoured to most likely evade capture most of the time. Only after the falcon has picked out a swift (or pigeon) and is diving down on it would it's success rate be even beginning to approach 50%, and I sincerely doubt it's close anyway.

And it doesn't need to be.
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Taipan
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Grazier
Jan 29 2017, 08:12 PM
You have to also factor in the selective methods of the predator, choosing it's time to strike and which target to strike, I believe these factors make some success rates significantly higher than they would be if you just placed the predator in a predator/prey contest with a prime specimen of their prey animal on anything close to an even playing field. The prey animal ALWAYS naturally has the advantage in such conditions. One way or another, your mentioned factors not withstanding. I don't argue with them, they just aren't enough to overcome the fact that prey must have the advantage to be viable. Maybe for some prey species that release billions of young like spores into the wind and then said young congregate in massive swarms, even then you have to say by this technique the prey animal has an advantage, it will most likely "win" by hiding amongst thousands of it's bretheren.

Swifts are faster than falcons BTW, even in a straight horizontal line, much much faster at zig zagging and turning. Falcons are faster in a dive, and this is how they overcome the swift's advantage, occasionally. Even allowing the falcon to fly up and dive down on the swift, the swift should definitely be favoured to most likely evade capture most of the time. Even pigeons are favoured to most likely evade capture most of the time. Only after the falcon has picked out a swift (or pigeon) and is diving down on it would it's success rate be even beginning to approach 50%, and I sincerely doubt it's close anyway.

And it doesn't need to be.


None of that goes towards correcting your error. Learn to read, learn to learn. Hunting success rates do not determine whether an animal is likely to go extinct or not. Prey and Predator have evolved balanced relationships over tens of thousands of years. Eurasian Lynx have a success rate of over 80% against reindeer. Reindeer are not close to extinction. They can simply exist in such large numbers that Eurasian Lynx predation of them is not a significant factor. As I stated, in a natural ecosystem factors such as population size, breeding rate, clutch size, predators to prey ratio etc. ensure that species numbers remain viable and healthy.
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zergthe
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Grazier
 
Swifts are faster than falcons BTW

Erm...sooooo not the case stated in the OP of Peregrine Falcon v. Spine Tailed Swift, speed-wise. The PF is over twice the speed of the STS...
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SquamataOrthoptera
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15 year old keyboard warrior!
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Edit: Dint realize this was about Birds and not in general lol.
Anway, Eurasuan Sparrow Hawk, eating a rock pigeon.
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Edited by SquamataOrthoptera, Feb 3 2017, 03:57 PM.
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