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Who wins?
Smilodon fatalis (pride of 3) 4 (100%)
Giant Ice Age Bison 0 (0%)
Total Votes: 4
Smilodon fatalis (pride of 3) v Giant Ice Age Bison
Topic Started: Apr 19 2017, 10:10 PM (357 Views)
Taipan
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Smilodon fatalis (pride of 3)
Smilodon fatalis ("the deadly knife-tooth") is possibly the best-known of the machairodontine saber-toothed cats. It appeared in North America about 1.6 million years ago and later migrated down the west coast of the continent to Peru. It became extinct around 10,000 years ago. This species is estimated to have ranged from 160 to 280 kg (350 to 620 lb). Particularly large S. fatalis males may well have reached a body mass of around 350 kg (770 lb), if not more. Their teeth are about 7 in. Although the saber-toothed cat has no close living relatives, paleontologists reconstruct how the saber-toothed cat looked by comparing its bones with those of large cats living today. Very powerful front legs and a short tail indicate that saber-toothed cats used stealth and ambush rather than speed to capture their prey. Recent investigations suggest that this saber-toothed cat probably used its long canines to slash through the throat, severing the wind pipe and cutting the jugular. Its teeth were surprisingly delicate and could easily snap off if a prey animal struggled. Its mouth could open up to 120 degrees, whereas its closest living relative, Panthera leo, or lion, can only open its jaws to 65 degrees.

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Giant Ice Age Bison - Bison latifrons
Bison latifrons is an extinct species of bison that lived in North America during the Pleistocene. Also known as the giant bison, it reached a shoulder height of 2.5 metres (8.5 feet), and had horns that spanned over 2 metres (6.5 feet). The known dimensions of the species are much larger than either extant species of bison (it was approximately twice the body size) and other extant large bovids, and B. latifrons may be the largest bovid in the fossil record. B. latifrons reached a shoulder height of 2.5 meters (8.2 ft) and may have weighed 2,000 kilograms (4,400 lb).

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Mastodon
Apr 18 2017, 03:17 PM
Smilodon fatalis (pride of 2) vs bison latifrons


ADMIN - I added a cat!

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LeopardNimr
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i'll go with the cats. but one will die.
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Valtodo
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3 cats x 160 kg will make that horn monster laugh at them and that is the only way to kill him. Things change if we speak about 3 smilodon fatalis x 280 kg I think. I would give that one to the cats more often than not. 280 kg is largerthan a modern lion,more the size of a tiger and I see them winning it.
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Mastodon
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This is the closest thing I could see for a size comparison.

An american lion and bison latifrons Posted Image
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Mammuthus
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Here is a paper regarding Bison latifrons weight

"The scientific name, Bison latifrons, is derived from Latin and refers to this bison􏰁s broad cranium and large horns (Fig􏰀 1)􏰀 Bison latifrons was the largest of all North American bison with horn cores that spanned over 7 feet compared with horn-core spans of about 2 feet for the living North American bison, Bison bison􏰀 The 􏰂racks􏰃 on these animals must have been truly impressive considering the horns would have had sheaths on them extending each horn several more inches􏰀 The large horns functioned as a visual deterrent to competing bison and were used when necessary for combat􏰀 Even though Bison latifrons had a large head and massive horns, it was probably only 25% to 50% larger than the modern bison based on comparison of limb bones between the two species􏰀"
https://www.dmr.nd.gov/ndfossil/education/pdf/bison.pdf

The average weight of an America bison is 725kg (source) so..

725 ÷ 100 x 37 = 268

725 + 268 = 993

The Ice Age Bison would of averaged only 993kg. So, with that in mind, I would back the S. fatalis'.
Edited by Mammuthus, Apr 21 2017, 12:07 AM.
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Mastodon
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How do you see the Smilodons landing a bite? In case the bison shake them off like a fighting bull.
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Mastodon
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My new question is, how will the smilodons manage to land a bite in the body, will they manage to outflank the bull with very long horns, or will they land a skull bite? I don't know if the bison has a bison like its relatives but I think it does if the majority of extant bison have bosses in their skulls.
Quote:
 
From Reddhole:

Smilodon fatalis killed conspecifics with bites to the skull or ribs.

Smilodon may have used a careful canine shear bite to the throat with huge prey, such as the ice-age bison (larger than the modern species), but apparently it could bite the skull ot ribs of other smilodons.

[quote author=reddhole board=interspecific thread=3578 post=38347 time=1221153518]IMHO, the fragility of Smilodon's canine teeth is overstated. While it is true that Smildon killed ice-age megafauna (i.e. ~ 3,000 lb. Pleistociene bison) with a careful and precise canine-shear bite, similar-sized predators were (at least sometimes) killed with bites to the skulls or ribs. The following extract is from this study:

Source: Per Christiansen, "Comparitive Bite Force and Canine Bending Strength in Feline and Sabertooth Felids: Implications for Predator Ecology", Zoological Journal of the Linnean Society, 151: 2, 2007, P 423-437

Note the following statement:


Smilodon may generally have avoided biting directly into bone during hunting, but direct evidence exists of it being an aggressive predator with a bite powerful enough to drive canines through bone, such as another Smilodon skull with a deep bite wound, or a rib cage with a canine tip still embedded in it.


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This is also supported by this study's measurements of the sabertooth's canine bending strength. S AP and S LM are different measurement of canine strength. Smilodon fatalis's canines were similar (and in some respects greater) in strength as lions, tigers and jaguars, but the sabertooth cat was also heavier.

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IMHO, Smilodon could have also dispatched a similar sized carnivore with a canine shear bite to the throat as well. All cats have to be somewhat careful when they bite, and must have decent control over their adversary before making a killing bite. The extra control a Smilodon would require could easily be met by its vastly superior strength.

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LeopardNimr
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Mastodon
Apr 20 2017, 09:26 AM
How do you see the Smilodons landing a bite? In case the bison shake them off like a fighting bull.
if it was one smilodon it will find it hard. there are 3 of them .and they are known the wrestle big prey to the ground. so atleast one will give the lethal bite.
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Vivyx
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I think the cats should win this most of the time, even if the bison was bigger than 993 kg.
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