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who wins?
Borson's Mastodon 4 (80%)
Straight-tusked Elephant 1 (20%)
Total Votes: 5
Borson's Mastodon v Straight-tusked Elephant
Topic Started: Oct 15 2017, 05:37 PM (982 Views)
Taipan
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Borson's Mastodon - Zygolophodon borsoni
Zygolophodon is an extinct genus of African, Asian, North American and European mammutid that lived from the Miocene to the Middle Pleistocene. It may have evolved from Tetralophodon. While collecting fossils in the Clarno Formation of Oregon during 1941, noted paleobotanists Alonzo W. Hancock and Chester A. Arnold recovered the most complete Zygolophodon skull known at the time.
Zygolophodon borsoni is a large species that was sometimes considered as a species of Mammut, and it was one of the largest terrestrial mammals of all time. With a shoulder height of about 3.9–4.1 metres (12.8–13.5 ft) and a weight of about 14–16 tonnes (15.4–17.6 short tons), it approached the size of Paraceratherium, and was heavier than several sauropod dinosaurs.

Posted Image

Straight-tusked Elephant - Palaeoloxodon antiquus
The straight-tusked elephant (Palaeoloxodon antiquus) is an extinct species of elephant closely related to the living Asian elephant. It inhabited Europe during the Middle and Late Pleistocene (781,000–50,000 years before present). Some experts regard the larger Asian species, Palaeoloxodon namadicus, as a variant or subspecies. Palaeoloxodon antiquus was quite large, individuals reaching 4 metres (13 ft) in height. One 40-year-old male was 3.81 metres (12.5 ft) tall and weighed 11.3 tonnes (11.1 long tons; 12.5 short tons), while another from Montreuil weighed about 15 tonnes (15 long tons; 17 short tons) and was 4.2 metres (14 ft) tall. and had long, slightly upward-curving tusks. P. antiquus's legs were slightly longer than those of modern elephants. This elephant is thought to have had an 80-cm-long tongue that could be projected a short distance from the mouth to grasp leaves and grasses.[3][citation needed] With this tongue and a flexible trunk, straight-tusked elephants could graze or browse on Pleistocene foliage about 8 m above ground. Straight-tusked elephants lived in small herds of about five to 15 individuals. They preferred warm conditions and flourished in the interglacial periods during the current Ice Age, spreading from continental Europe to Great Britain during the warmer periods. It is assumed that they preferred wooded environments. During colder periods, the species migrated south. It became extinct in Britain by the beginning of the last glacial, about 115,000 years ago. Eventually it was replaced by the mammoth.

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Edited by Taipan, Oct 15 2017, 05:38 PM.
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Mammuthus
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Mammut Borsoni should be winning this. It was a good 3 tonnes larger than P. antiquus which would mean it was a physically stronger animal and although they are prone to breaking, it does have those 16ft tusks which will be very hard to avoid.
Edited by Mammuthus, Oct 15 2017, 06:14 PM.
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Taipan
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Mammuthus
Oct 15 2017, 06:12 PM
Mammut Borsoni should be winning this. It was a good 3 tonnes larger than P. antiquus


My idea for this thread came from the diagram below:

Posted Image

One appeared to have asdlight height advantage and another a bit of a weight advantage (1 ton). Was looking for amn Elephant v Mastodon matchup.



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Mammuthus
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Taipan
Oct 15 2017, 07:19 PM
Mammuthus
Oct 15 2017, 06:12 PM
Mammut Borsoni should be winning this. It was a good 3 tonnes larger than P. antiquus


My idea for this thread came from the diagram below:

Posted Image

One appeared to have asdlight height advantage and another a bit of a weight advantage (1 ton). Was looking for amn Elephant v Mastodon matchup.



That P. antiquus would be a large specimen. Pretty sure that same source mentions that healthy adults would have obtained a body mass of 13 tonnes
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Ferreomus
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The Mastodon was a monster, I don't think any elephant member wouldirectly defeat it at max sizes
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Mammuthus
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Ferreomus
Oct 15 2017, 11:28 PM
I don't think any elephant member wouldirectly defeat it at max sizes
Cough cough Palaeoloxodon namadicus.
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Vivyx
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I think the proboscidean would win.
Edited by Vivyx, Oct 16 2017, 02:11 AM.
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Mammuthus
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Vivyx
Oct 16 2017, 02:11 AM
I think the proboscidean would win.
I agree that the Proboscidean would win here but it would be a tough fight for it.
Edited by Mammuthus, Oct 16 2017, 05:19 AM.
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Ausar
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Zygolophodon looks like its tusks are a bit too long for effective close quarters combat. Some pictures of Palaeoloxodon antiquus give off this impression too, although perhaps to a somewhat lesser extent. If the Palaeoloxodon has tusks that look like the ones in Asier Larramendi's silhouette above, which look just the right length, then I'd probably back it, especially if it weighs about as much.
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Ginsu
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Zygolophodon not only has a sizeable weight and hieght advantage but also appears to have tusks better oriented for goring than Palaeoloxodon.
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Lightning
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According to this very recent, 2016 study (which Mammuthus posted on the African forest elephant vs white rhino thread), the very largest, record sized zygolophodons may have weighed up to a staggering 28 tons.

https://www.app.pan.pl/archive/published/app61/app001362014.pdf

On page 19

The zygolophodon wins this and we need some zygolophodon vs sauropod thread.
Edited by Lightning, Apr 11 2018, 05:36 AM.
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blaze
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That study never claims any Z. borsoni reached 28 tonnes, you are extrapolating from the separate claim that "record" individuals are 25% taller than average for their species and then scaling up ignoring negative allometry, I don't see the point of using an imaginary size like that, not to mention you can do the same for Triceratops its opponent.
Edited by blaze, Apr 11 2018, 11:35 PM.
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Ausar
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Triceratops? I think you posted in the somewhat wrong thread (I say somewhat because the supposed 28 ton Zygolophodon was mentioned in both this and the other thread).
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Lightning
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blaze
Apr 11 2018, 10:39 AM
That study never claims any Z. borsoni reached 28 tonnes, you are extrapolating from the separate claim that "record" individuals are 25% taller than average for their species and then scaling up ignoring negative allometry
Oh, OK. I didn't know that because I didn't really read the study, I just looked at the table and guessed what it meant. My bad.
blaze
Apr 11 2018, 10:39 AM
not to mention you can do the same for Triceratops.
You're posting on the wrong thread.
Edited by Lightning, Apr 11 2018, 07:51 PM.
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blaze
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My main point was about a supposed 28t Z. borsoni and forgot what thread I decided to make the comment on haha, I corrected that.

But yeah, one can make the same extrapolation for P. antiquus and pretty much double the weight and nothing about the match changes.

Not that I think is reasonable to do that, we don't even know if such general "rule" applies to mammals as big as elephants, while it is true that the largest African elephant hunted is claimed to have been 4m tall at the shoulders, another specimen claimed to be 3.8m turned out to be just 3.5m according to the size of its bones, this was pointed out by Larramendi too so the 4m record should also be taken with a grain of salt.
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