Lynxes killing wolves in Belarus

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Lynxes killing wolves in Belarus
Tweet Topic Started: Dec 26 2017, 05:04 AM (6,438 Views)
Warsaw2014	Jan 2 2018, 12:18 AM Post #76
Herbivore Posts: 963 Group: Members Member #2,919 Joined: Nov 5, 2014	BTW Do you know that the wolf In Bielarus is a game species From Mr Sidorovich: "As to the wolf population in Belarus, it is mainly exploited (heavy persecution of wolves is carried out every year in the most of the country)," The status of wolf population, distribution and dynamic in Belarus. National management plan of wolf population. Status of large carnivores • Volf – game species. Total number on 2011 – about 1300-1500 ex., in accordance with management plan the number must be regulated on level 500-600 ex. on beginning of breeding season • Linx – redlisted, about 800 ex. (2011) max estimated in optimal ecologycal condition – 1500 ex., mainly on western and northern part, stable. "По разным оценкам, в нашей стране численность волка находится в пределах 800-2000 особей. Ежегодно добывают примерно 700-1100 животных, что составляет около 60% популяции." http://greenbelarus.info/articles/09-02-2017/somnitelnyy-rekord-minleshoza-v-belarusi-ubity-1734-volka http://greenbelarus.info/articles/05-05-2017/chto-tam-s-volkom-v-belarusi-minprirody-zastupaetsya-za-hishchnika-i-kritikuet http://ochronaprzyrody.gdos.gov.pl/files/artykuly/5490/Ruslan_Novitsky_Rumunia.pdf https://www.reuters.com/article/us-belarus-hunting-wolves/in-belarus-wolf-hunters-lay-traps-at-edge-of-chernobyl-zone-idUSKBN15T14D .Other factors ( heavy persecution of wolves) need to be taken into account . I'm not surprised that " this was the last time this male wolf was ever seen" Anyway. I'm not sure what really happened "Female Bobcats are almost half the weight of Coyotes, and as you established are rarely predated by Coyotes." And ? Once again "I,m suprised that female bobcat was killed by coyote (single or group) because these two species are relatively close in weight. (coyotes tend to be sligtly larger than bobcats").Now I see that even adult male was killed by coyote." " Male Bobcats can kill prey up to 8 times their own weight.They are thus a more superior predator than the slightly larger rabbit hunting Canadian Lynx." "Exclusively carnivores, the Canadian lynx depends heavily on snowshoe hares for food. These hares comprise 35–97% of their diet; their occurrence in the diet varies by abundance of hares and the season.[18] Snowshoe hare populations in Alaska and central Canada undergo cyclic rises and falls – at times the population densities can fall from as high as 2,300 per square kilometre (6,000/sq mi) to as low as 12 per square kilometre (31/sq mi). Consequently, a period of hare scarcity occurs every 8 to 11 years.[37] During these times, lynxes will include other animals – such as ducks, grouse, moles, ptarmigan, red squirrels, voles and young ungulates (Dall's sheep, mule deer and reindeer)" Edited by Warsaw2014, Jan 2 2018, 12:53 AM.



kuri	Jan 2 2018, 02:22 AM Post #77
Omnivore Posts: 1,098 Group: Members Member #7 Joined: Jan 6, 2012	Warsaw2014 Jan 1 2018, 06:37 AM "cats often rake the underbellies with their hind claws when they fight, this is common knowledge. Yes,for example here is very visible that "cats often rake the underbellies with their hind claws when they fight" but I don't see any serious wounds. "While being held down the leopard clawed the tiger's breast until there were great wide gashes in the big animal, which soon began to weaken. Continuing its clawing, the leopard, finished its enemy by tearing out the tiger's vital organs. Then the leopard, torn and bleeding, fell exhausted beside the dead body of its adversary. The trainer and other attaches of the circus say the growls and howls and howls of the other animals during the battle were terrific and the excitement was intense. " http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/9348622/196/ they do enormous damage with their claws!



k9boy	Jan 2 2018, 03:11 AM Post #78
Apex Predator Posts: 4,236 Group: Members Member #254 Joined: Mar 26, 2012	that sounds fishy to me^ but the claws can inflict fatal wounds. leopards have disemboweled gorillas and baboons.



AiM4	Jan 2 2018, 02:00 PM Post #79
Autotrophic Organism Posts: 152 Group: Members Member #4,304 Joined: Nov 19, 2016	k9boy Dec 27 2017, 02:43 AM ImperialDino Dec 26 2017, 10:33 PM Wonder what happens when a male wolf and male lynx cross paths "adult male wolf plausibly died being wounded after a fight with a male lynx (Naliboki Forest, April 2017)" Could be a small Wolf male



Lightning	Apr 26 2018, 06:00 PM Post #80
Omnivore Posts: 1,134 Group: Members Member #4,834 Joined: Mar 2, 2018	k9boy Dec 27 2017, 12:35 PM Of course a blog is not going to look professional or scientific. Look at the other articles on the blog, and search up Vadim Sidorovich and who he is. maybe feel free to send an email or contact him via the blog site if you think hes secretly a 13 year old boy with a lynx fetish. https://sidorovich.blog/2017/12/20/visits-of-wolves-in-human-settlements-in-belarus-with-implication-for-wolf-attacks-of-dogs/ https://sidorovich.blog/2017/12/05/broadleaved-deciduous-oldgrowth-in-naliboki-forest-and-the-main-predator-prey-relationships-in-its-community-of-vertebrates/ https://sidorovich.blog/2017/12/01/benefit-of-semiaquatic-mustelids-from-beaver-construction-activity-in-belarus-and-the-method-to-census-aquatic-prey/ I guess the above articles must be just for cover, so nobody would suspect hes a secret wolfhating, lynx loving teenage boy? where would a random on the internet even get these camera trap images. I dont see him trying to convince anyone of lynx superiority, he is just displaying what he has found through actual research, you know, going outdoors and such. That argument is really clutching at straws. And hardly any actual research has been seen on the interaction between the eurasian lynx and eurasian wolf, only vague statements on website and books about european wildlife suggesting wolves dominate lynx, and not going any more in depth then that. Some actual evidence has been presented stating otherwise by an actual researcher, and its being written off as being lies because A. its hurting canis lupus reputation (its not, but hey some folk are sensitive about their favored animal) or B. the website doesn't look professional enough. again, a blog website isnt going to look amazing. And english is obviously not this mans language, so any off wording can be forgiven. again, these incidents happened in Belarus, and all information above is specific to that area. I know right. The extent some people would go to downplay the lynx is mind blowing. The guy has PhD, been in the field of zoology for more than 30 years, wrote several books on wildlife, has been out in the jungle observing and studying these animals himself, was actually there in person and saw for himself what happened. And he is obviously far more knowledge than anyone here. We know for a fact that the fight between the male lynx and male wolf really did happen since there are photos confirming that. The photos even make it clear that the wolf lost, there's no denying that. Now even a minor scratch can lead to infection and death. And that is most likely what happened since the wolf was never seen again. And these people here think they can disprove all of it by posting a photo that was taken from far away and shows only one side of the wolf, oversimplifying the guy's every word (The fact that he's from Belarus and English obviously isn't his language makes this worse) and posting heaps of irrelevant data... Come on canine fanboys/ feline haters, calm your @sses down. Edited by Lightning, Apr 26 2018, 06:32 PM.



Nyers	Apr 26 2018, 06:28 PM Post #81
Unicellular Organism Posts: 11 Group: Members Member #4,856 Joined: Apr 6, 2018	Sidorovich Vadim Evgenyevic - Professor of the Department of Zoology, Doctor of Biological Sciences, Chief Researcher of the National Academy of Science of Belarus http://www.bio.bsu.by/zoology/sidorovichve_ru.html



Vita	Apr 26 2018, 06:31 PM Post #82
Cave Canem Posts: 3,563 Group: Members Member #32 Joined: Jan 9, 2012	Warsaw2014 Dec 28 2017, 10:33 PM k9boy Dec 28 2017, 06:40 AM What is the relevance of all that data? and again, thats his conclusion based on his experience with both animals. "Moreover, we got convinced that an adult lynx – especially a big male – can win a fight from any lone wolf" These data show that adult male wolf can be at least twice as large as"especially a big male lynx " 67 kg wolf -33 kg ? lynx. So ,there is so much reasonable doubt in this case. It would be unreasonable to not doubt a statement like that, especially when it's the only source that proclaims it.



Lightning	Apr 26 2018, 06:40 PM Post #83
Omnivore Posts: 1,134 Group: Members Member #4,834 Joined: Mar 2, 2018	Vita Apr 26 2018, 06:31 PM Warsaw2014 Dec 28 2017, 10:33 PM k9boy Dec 28 2017, 06:40 AM What is the relevance of all that data? and again, thats his conclusion based on his experience with both animals. "Moreover, we got convinced that an adult lynx – especially a big male – can win a fight from any lone wolf" These data show that adult male wolf can be at least twice as large as"especially a big male lynx " 67 kg wolf -33 kg ? lynx. So ,there is so much reasonable doubt in this case. It would be unreasonable to not doubt a statement like that, especially when it's the only source that proclaims it. He could have been (likely was) talking about wolves in Belarus, which are 39kg, not 67kg, and it is possible that wolves there have a fear of lynxes there, like how red foxes have a fear of gray foxes. And win doesn't always mean kill, it can mean chase away. Regardless one statement which sounds unreasonable (from a person whose language isn't English) does not disprove the entire event. Warsaw2014 Dec 29 2017, 06:24 AM Here is real scenario ,cougar killing wolf , from my understanding the wolf initiated the fight ""The wolf initially had control of the fight; the cougar was on its back" So cougar was on its back but at the end killing the wolf with a bite in the neck region.Right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXL_ALCRUcU I seriously doubt the wolf was dominating. It just looked as if the wolf was dominating. Watch this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uKpL8213WE4&feature=youtu.be To a person who doesn't know much about animals, it may look as if the coyote was dominating at first since the young puma was on its back. But was the coyote really dominating? If it was, please explain why the coyote was running for its life as soon as it got off the hold. Edited by Lightning, Apr 26 2018, 06:59 PM.



Vita	Apr 26 2018, 06:53 PM Post #84
Cave Canem Posts: 3,563 Group: Members Member #32 Joined: Jan 9, 2012	Lightning Apr 26 2018, 06:40 PM Vita Apr 26 2018, 06:31 PM Warsaw2014 Dec 28 2017, 10:33 PM Quoting limited to 3 levels deep It would be unreasonable to not doubt a statement like that, especially when it's the only source that proclaims it. He could have been (likely was) talking about wolves in Belarus, which are 39kg, not 67kg, and it is possible that wolves there have a fear of lynxes there, like how red foxes have a fear of gray foxes. And win doesn't always mean kill, it can mean chase away. You say this like this is supposed to ease my doubts or something.



Lightning	Apr 26 2018, 06:57 PM Post #85
Omnivore Posts: 1,134 Group: Members Member #4,834 Joined: Mar 2, 2018	Vita Apr 26 2018, 06:53 PM Lightning Apr 26 2018, 06:40 PM Vita Apr 26 2018, 06:31 PM Quoting limited to 3 levels deep He could have been (likely was) talking about wolves in Belarus, which are 39kg, not 67kg, and it is possible that wolves there have a fear of lynxes there, like how red foxes have a fear of gray foxes. And win doesn't always mean kill, it can mean chase away. You say this like this is supposed to ease my doubts or something. You can keep your doubts. But the fact that the photos show the fight really happened, the wolf being defeated, it being possible that a scratch can cause infection and this specific wolf (which was seen frequently at first) never being seen again is enough reason to believe it for me. Nyers Apr 26 2018, 06:28 PM Sidorovich Vadim Evgenyevic - Professor of the Department of Zoology, Doctor of Biological Sciences, Chief Researcher of the National Academy of Science of Belarus http://www.bio.bsu.by/zoology/sidorovichve_ru.html . . Exactly . . Edited by Lightning, Apr 26 2018, 07:06 PM.



Vita	Apr 26 2018, 07:19 PM Post #86
Cave Canem Posts: 3,563 Group: Members Member #32 Joined: Jan 9, 2012	Lightning Apr 26 2018, 06:57 PM Vita Apr 26 2018, 06:53 PM Lightning Apr 26 2018, 06:40 PM Quoting limited to 3 levels deep You say this like this is supposed to ease my doubts or something. You can keep your doubts. But the fact that the photos show the fight really happened, the wolf being defeated, it being possible that a scratch can cause infection and this specific wolf (which was seen frequently at first) never being seen again is enough reason to believe it for me. You know very well I'm not disputing the accounts about dead pups, females and a scratched up MIA wolf, rather the claim that an euro lynx can best any wolf.



Lightning	Apr 26 2018, 07:40 PM Post #87
Omnivore Posts: 1,134 Group: Members Member #4,834 Joined: Mar 2, 2018	Vita Apr 26 2018, 07:19 PM You know very well I'm not disputing the accounts about dead pups, females and a scratched up MIA wolf, rather the claim that an euro lynx can best any wolf. Oh Ok. That's fine by me. I don't believe that an Eurasian lynx can best any wolf either. I personally think he was only talking about wolves from Belarus, not from other parts of the world. But to each their own opinion I guess. Edited by Lightning, Apr 26 2018, 07:43 PM.



Vita	Apr 26 2018, 11:22 PM Post #88
Cave Canem Posts: 3,563 Group: Members Member #32 Joined: Jan 9, 2012	Lightning Apr 26 2018, 07:40 PM Vita Apr 26 2018, 07:19 PM You know very well I'm not disputing the accounts about dead pups, females and a scratched up MIA wolf, rather the claim that an euro lynx can best any wolf. Oh Ok. That's fine by me. I don't believe that an Eurasian lynx can best any wolf either. I personally think he was only talking about wolves from Belarus, not from other parts of the world. But to each their own opinion I guess. Oh, I'm not talking about wolves from other regions, I'm talking about wolves in Belarus.



Warsaw2014	Apr 27 2018, 04:21 AM Post #89
Herbivore Posts: 963 Group: Members Member #2,919 Joined: Nov 5, 2014	Lightning Apr 26 2018, 06:57 PM Vita Apr 26 2018, 06:53 PM Lightning Apr 26 2018, 06:40 PM Quoting limited to 3 levels deep You say this like this is supposed to ease my doubts or something. You can keep your doubts. But the fact that the photos show the fight really happened, the wolf being defeated, it being possible that a scratch can cause infection and this specific wolf (which was seen frequently at first) never being seen again is enough reason to believe it for me. Nyers Apr 26 2018, 06:28 PM Sidorovich Vadim Evgenyevic - Professor of the Department of Zoology, Doctor of Biological Sciences, Chief Researcher of the National Academy of Science of Belarus http://www.bio.bsu.by/zoology/sidorovichve_ru.html . . Exactly . . "never being seen again is enough reason to believe it for me."really mean nothing. Other factors ( heavy persecution of wolves) need to be taken into account . I'm not surprised that " this was the last time this male wolf was ever seen" BTW here is really interesting info http://en.ctv.by/en/1516200078-wolf-gps-collar-experiment-in-belarus http://vouk.by/ Edited by Warsaw2014, Apr 27 2018, 04:37 AM.



Lightning	Apr 27 2018, 08:38 AM Post #90
Omnivore Posts: 1,134 Group: Members Member #4,834 Joined: Mar 2, 2018	Yeah, I saw your last post on the other thread. I emailed Sidorovich about this. Let's see what he says.



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