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| What if non-avian dinosaurs survived in Japan? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 21 2018, 03:43 AM (437 Views) | |
| DinosaurMichael | Mar 21 2018, 03:43 AM Post #1 |
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Apex Predator
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![]() Title pretty much explains it. How do you think history would be if while everywhere else in the world they died out. Somewhat or somehow non-avian dinosaurs managed to however continue persisting in Japan? How different would human history be especially by the time the first humans arrived in the country? I feel with some dinosaurs, the Japanese might of domesticated or at most tamed some such as plant eaters. Discuss. Edited by DinosaurMichael, Mar 21 2018, 03:56 AM.
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| Ausar | Mar 21 2018, 04:20 AM Post #2 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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Just kidding, of course (though it would certainly be a cool place to me). So are we starting off with the earliest human settlers to Japan (Pleistocene) and seeing dinosaurs in the place? If so, I think the first question would be: would the dinosaurs survive into the Holocene? Lots of other real-life Pleistocene megafauna around the world didn't, and Japan wasn't an exception. Then again, there is your picture of a Parasaurolophus-like hadrosaur with a samurai, so maybe you want us to assume they did survive. |
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| DinosaurMichael | Mar 21 2018, 04:23 AM Post #3 |
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Apex Predator
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That's the scenario here. I do think humans might drive some to extinction but at the same time could see domestication of a few at most especially herbivores. At the same time said humans might view them differently compared to Ice Age megafauna and try as said domesticate a some to their advantage. Either way I'd imagine some would survive because some like sauropods might just be way too big for early humans to kill them especially if all they have are spears. But just for sake of argument for this scenario and discussion though, let's just say despite all odds that the non-avian dinosaurs did survive in Japan regardless of challenges and said humans as shown in the imagine managed to domesticate and tame some of them. Edited by DinosaurMichael, Mar 21 2018, 04:27 AM.
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| Lightning | Mar 21 2018, 04:27 AM Post #4 |
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Omnivore
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In my opinion, most of the dinosaurs would be hunted to extinction by the early human settlers. It would have little to no affect on overall human history. Tame the herbivores? Lol, I'm sure the samurai would love to ride some giant sauropods and ceratopians into their enemies and flatten them but can reptiles be tamed? |
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| DinosaurMichael | Mar 21 2018, 04:29 AM Post #5 |
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Apex Predator
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I feel with the rather big dinosaurs especially the sauropods would survive since they might prove to be too big to kill with spears. Realistic-wise though yeah I'd imagine most would be driven to extinction by early human hunters but I'd also imagine some to live since said human hunters would need an continuous food source to thrive. However sake of argument for this scenario though. Non-avian dinosaurs did survive in Japan regardless and humans did manage to domesticate some. Edited by DinosaurMichael, Mar 21 2018, 05:43 AM.
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| Lightning | Mar 21 2018, 04:50 AM Post #6 |
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Omnivore
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YES! We get to see some 50+ ton sauropods crashing into a samurai army. The Japanese will use these dinosaurs for transport and war. The Mongol Empire might have interest in these great animals and try to invade Japan (which they tried in real life anyway) and fail (as they did in real life). However, when the first Europeans (the Portugese as it happened in real life) arrive in Japan in the 1500's, they might be amazed by these magnificient beasts and so try to conquer Japan (which they never attempted in real life). The Portugese might or might not succeed in conquering Japan. They might succeed because they had guns (though early and not nearly as effective as modern guns) and Japan was disunited between rival clans or they might fail because they'd be badly outnumbered despite the fact Japan is not united. And Japan might even unite in order to face this new threat. Also, the Japanese would probably have war sauropods or ceratopsians and try to crash them into the Portugese lines. Who knows how history might have played out. Edited by Lightning, Mar 21 2018, 04:52 AM.
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| DinosaurMichael | Mar 21 2018, 04:57 AM Post #7 |
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Apex Predator
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Someone definitely should make this into a book or movie. I'd be definitely down for it. Probably be the best AU since Harry Turtledove's A Different Flesh. |
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| zergthe | Mar 21 2018, 05:02 AM Post #8 |
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Kleptoparasite
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Sounds like the Dinosaur Lords series |
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| DinosaurMichael | Mar 21 2018, 06:44 AM Post #9 |
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Apex Predator
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I'd imagine upon trading with the Chinese who will in turn trade neighboring countries like India will get a hold of these domesticated dinosaurs hence spreading across Asia for war most notably. Eventually Europeans getting a hold of some through trading and using them for the same reasons to eventually in the present dinosaurs are pretty much seen as any other normal animals with Japan getting an tourism boost being the only country that had surviving non-avian dinosaurs. Some in zoos, while some domesticated dinosaurs used for livestock who knows how the meat market would go there. Sailors also spin tales of fantastic beasts and monsters in the Far East. In this reality they’re even true! ![]() It'll no doubt change warfare. Edited by DinosaurMichael, Mar 21 2018, 06:49 AM.
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| Ausar | Mar 21 2018, 08:05 AM Post #10 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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Re warfare: as much as I love dinosaurs and the image of them having an instrumental role in warfare in a fictional setting (i.e. the arvalis image above), I doubt they'd change warfare all that much under the conditions stipulated in this thread. Looking a bit into other websites on the effectiveness of war elephants, it seems they had their fair share of problems in addition to the advantages they brought. Obviously dinosaurs aren't elephants, but if we're talking about gigantic dinosaurs I think they'd have some of the same potential issues war elephants had. I'd imagine moving them through certain terrain and sustaining them would be key among them, which should be much more pronounced issues with dinosaurs larger than elephants. Eventually (and this would certainly apply if you're imagining the Portugese learning of these hypothetical Japanese dinosaurs), cannons would be on the list too. I'm no expert in gigantic war animals (and I've got other things to do, so this isn't my best post ever), but I don't think dinosaurs would really make that large of an impact in warfare, probably for the same reason that war elephants (while they certainly brought advantages to the table) don't seem to have (I mean, as far as I'm aware). Edited by Ausar, Mar 21 2018, 08:28 AM.
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| Lightning | Mar 21 2018, 08:29 AM Post #11 |
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Omnivore
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I actually agree, feeding a 50 ton sauropod is more cost that it's worth and, although it's massive, is it really that good if it's top charging speed is only 5mph? It'd likely be an easy target for catapult-like weapons (and cannons when we run into the gunpowder age). Edited by Lightning, Mar 21 2018, 08:52 AM.
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| Palaeoscincus | Mar 25 2018, 10:04 AM Post #12 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Nothing would change much. They'd be like any other domestic animal. I don't think Japan could support many large species of dinosaur, certainly not with human civilization in play. But I'm sure legends of "dragons" from the Orient would have a much higher prevalence and be more accurate in ancient European societies of this alternate universe then it did in our reality. |
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