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Who wins?
Lioness 8 (53.3%)
Grey Wolf (Pack with 3 - 4 adults) 7 (46.7%)
Total Votes: 15
Lioness v Grey Wolf (Pack with 3 - 4 adults)
Topic Started: Jul 10 2018, 09:47 PM (3,550 Views)
Taipan
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Lioness - Panthera leo
The lioness (Panthera leo) is one of the four big cats in the genus Panthera, and a member of the family Felidae. Wild lions currently exist in Sub-Saharan Africa and in Asia with an endangered remnant population in Gir Forest National Park in India, having disappeared from North Africa and Southwest Asia in historic times. Until the late Pleistocene, about 10,000 years ago, the lion was the most widespread large land mammal after humans. They were found in most of Africa, across Eurasia from western Europe to India, and in the Americas from the Yukon to Peru. The lion is a vulnerable species, having seen a possibly irreversible population decline of thirty to fifty percent over the past two decades in its African range. The African lioness is a very large cat, weighing between 260 and 400 pounds. It is 8 to 10 feet long, not including the tail. The body of the African lioness is well suited for hunting. It is very muscular, with back legs designed for pouncing and front legs made for grabbing and knocking down prey. It also has very strong jaws that enable it to eat the large prey that it hunts.

Posted Image

Grey Wolf (Pack with 3 - 4 adults) - Canis lupus
The Grey Wolf (Canis lupus ) is the largest wild canid, males averaging between 70 and 110 pounds depending on subspecies. The Wolf has a specialized body that has made it one of the world's most efficient hunters. Its powerful neck is a very important adaptation: it has to be strong to support the wolf's large head and is crucial for bringing down prey. The skull is 31cm (12 inches) long and is armed with an impressive array of large canines and carnassial teeth which, when coupled with huge jaw muscles that are evident from the large sagittal crest and wide zygomatic arches, give it an incredible biteforce that is strong enough to break the bones of prey and even crack the femur of moose. Wolves primarily feed on medium to large sized ungulates (up to the size of bison 10–15 times larger than themselves), though they are not fussy eaters. Medium and small sized animals that may supplement the diet of wolves include marmots, beaver, hares, badgers, foxes, weasels, ground squirrels, mice, hamsters, voles and other rodents, as well as insectivores.

Posted Image




EyeofTheJag
Jul 10 2018, 12:46 PM
African Male Lion vs Grey Wolves (Pack of 4)


If this thread is anything to go by, that would be a mismatch in favour of the Lion: Siberian Tiger v v Grey Wolf (Pack with 5 adults)

Lets try a Lioness.
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buteo
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I think 4 large wolves would be enough to kill a lioness but after a long and messy fight of course , wolves great stamina would help them for such a long fight but lioness wont stand so long , wolves would draw circles around lioness and constantly bite it and after injuries,blood loss and fatigue lioness would fall but of course after a long time and in that time wolves would avoid attacks of lioness , they wont attack head on mindlessly because they are aware of lioness is a dangerous opponent
btw small subspecies of wolves wouldnt kill lioness in my opinion but larger ones would
Edited by buteo, Jul 10 2018, 10:00 PM.
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Black Ice
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4-5 wolves have been documented getting the better of Grizzly bear. Dunno why people think a Lioness would win.

Even the tiger vs wolves thread blows my mind because people actually think a Tiger depresses wolf numbers by killing them when in actuality they live in places few wolves lived in to ever begin with.
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EyeofTheJag
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I think the 4 wolves would be too much a lioness.

On second thought, I do feel I was wrong in my estimation. I think it'd probably take 6-8 wolves to take down a male lion.
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CanineCanis
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^ Agreed on the male lion thing.

I'd back the lioness over 3 wolves, but 4 would be too much.
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MarlinMan133
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3-4 wolves is enough to kill any Big Cat i'd say.
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CanineCanis
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MarlinMan133
Jul 11 2018, 12:09 AM
3-4 wolves is enough to kill any Big Cat i'd say.
No way, a male lion or male tiger would destroy 3-4 wolves.
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EyeofTheJag
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MarlinMan133
Jul 11 2018, 12:09 AM
3-4 wolves is enough to kill any Big Cat i'd say.
STRONGLY disagree.

A male Siberian or Bengal would destroy 4 wolves.
CanineCanis
Jul 11 2018, 12:18 AM
MarlinMan133
Jul 11 2018, 12:09 AM
3-4 wolves is enough to kill any Big Cat i'd say.
No way, a male lion or male tiger would destroy 3-4 wolves.
2 wolves wouldn't be enough for a jaguar. So it's absurd to think that one more would beat a tiger.



Edited by EyeofTheJag, Jul 11 2018, 01:07 AM.
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Lightning
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If we're talking about a large subspecies of wolf, then the lioness defeats 3 wolves but loses to 4. With smaller subspecies, the lioness would defeat even 4.

Quote:
 
4-5 wolves have been documented getting the better of Grizzly bear.


Was it a fight to the death and was the bear a fully healthy (not previously shot through the head or anything) adult? If yes, post it please.
Edited by Lightning, Jul 11 2018, 01:12 AM.
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CanineCanis
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4 Tibetan wolves would lose. But 4 Northwestern/Russian wolves would take this for sure.

But I think the answer is clear, the lioness beats 3 but loses to 4.
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Mustang
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^I have seen a mother bear scatter more than 5 wolves in defence of her cub. I've also seen male grizzlies usurp kills from as many as 10 wolves.

Anyway, regarding this fight, 5 wolves could do it, tho with great difficulty. Anything less than 5 wouldn't be enough imho.
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EyeofTheJag
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I've never heard of wolves killing a full grown Grizzly. They can certainly drive a disinterested grizzly away. I don't think they'd be stupid enough to even try to kill it, and if they did, rest assured it would take far more than 4.
Mustang
Jul 11 2018, 01:57 AM
^I have seen a mother bear scatter more than 5 wolves in defence of her cub. I've also seen male grizzlies usurp kills from as many as 10 wolves.

Anyway, regarding this fight, 5 wolves could do it, tho with great difficulty. Anything less than 5 wouldn't be enough imho.
I'm thinking 5 wolves would really overwhelm a lioness and tear her to pieces.

There's a huge disparity between female and male lions in terms of size, weight, and strength.
Edited by EyeofTheJag, Jul 11 2018, 02:08 AM.
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Mustang
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There is, but the thing if you've watched the last lioness, you basically learn that one lioness survived for years on her own, after her entire pride got decimated by humans, in hyena country. That's no small feat, and a cornered lioness will give the wolves hell.
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Black Ice
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Lightning
Jul 11 2018, 01:10 AM
If we're talking about a large subspecies of wolf, then the lioness defeats 3 wolves but loses to 4. With smaller subspecies, the lioness would defeat even 4.

Quote:
 
4-5 wolves have been documented getting the better of Grizzly bear.


Was it a fight to the death and was the bear a fully healthy (not previously shot through the head or anything) adult? If yes, post it please.
Quote:
 
Banff National Park interspecific competition:

In terms of wolf-grizzly competition, 35 observations of interactions at
carcasses of large ungulate prey were recorded in BNP and the surrounding
region during 1989–1996 (7 ground, 28 aerial; P. C. Paquet, unpublished
data). Out of these observations of conflicts for possession of carcasses, the
following outcomes were observed: three (9%) cases where wolves killed
cubs (interference competition) with no attack observed on the female;
19 (54%) cases of wolves successfully usurping kills made by single bears
(the sex of which was unknown); 6 (17%) adult bears pushing packs of <4
wolves off wolf-killed carcasses (larger wolf packs were never pushed off);

3 (9%) cases of carcass defence by wolves where bears were intercepted
at a distance (>1km) from the kill, and 4 (11%) neutral or undetermined
outcomes. Moreover, in regional studies of radio-collared wolf survival,
no cases of grizzly-caused mortality were ever discovered (n>100 wolves;

(Callaghan 2002); M. Hebblewhite, unpublished data). Therefore, in BNP,
wolves seemed capable of out-competing grizzlies through interference
and exploitative competition.

From "1.3 Wolf Community Ecology: Ecosystem Effects of Recovering Wolves in Banff and Yellowstone National Parks" by Mark Hebblewhite and Doug W. Smith.


There is high regional variation in outcome between wolf-grizzly encounters.


Wolf/Grizzly Interactions vary extensively (which is why anybody who says bears dominate whole packs on a daily have no idea wtf they're talking about). In some places bears do dominate, in others wolves dominate (as shown here any pack larger than 4 never lost a kill to a single male bear which says a lot given the size difference) and in other cases it's 50/50 roughly.

In thus study out of every interaction recorded not a single wolf (out of 100!) was caught and killed by a bear either.

Meanwhile two Hyenas have been recorded wounding lioness to the point the lioness retreats and Hyena have inferior weaponry to wolves.

A group of large male wolves (around 130lbs) would kill the cat here. 100lbs or under would lose. Bigger predators in fights to the death do not normally win against multiple smaller predators unless the numbers are too few or the size difference is too big (lion vs wild dogs or t rex vs 10 lions for example are comfortably bigger predator wins).

The lioness has neither of these here. She's not gonna do what larger stronger bears fail to do even if she is more explosive. Explosiveness is the last thing you want to have vs multiple endurance predators.
Edited by Black Ice, Jul 11 2018, 03:17 AM.
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Lightning
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Mustang
Jul 11 2018, 01:57 AM
^I have seen a mother bear scatter more than 5 wolves in defence of her cub. I've also seen male grizzlies usurp kills from as many as 10 wolves.

I've seen a video of a lone bear usurping kill from 14 wolves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmfX-bogZdU

Quote:
 
A group of large male wolves (around 130lbs) would kill the cat here.


If we use larger than average wolves, then we also have to use a larger than average lioness.
Edited by Lightning, Jul 11 2018, 03:35 AM.
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