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| Livyatan vs. Megalodon | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 01:00 AM (40,217 Views) | |
| Wolf Eagle | Jan 7 2012, 01:00 AM Post #1 |
M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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Livyatan melvillei Leviathan melvillei is an extinct species of physeteroid whale. Fossilised remains, comprising 75% of the animal's skull, and large fragments of both jaws and several teeth, were discovered in the Pisco-Ica desert in southern Peru in 2008, in Miocene rocks 12-13 million years old. The skull of Leviathan melvillei measured 3 metres long, its longest teeth were 36 cm long, and it is thought its overall length would have been in the region of 13.5-17.5 m. It was similar in size and appearance to the modern sperm whale. Unlike the sperm whale, however, which only has functional teeth in its lower jaw, Leviathan melvillei had teeth in both jaws, and is thought to have been an aggressive predator, possibly preying on baleen whales.  Carcharocles megalodon The megalodon is an extinct megatoothed shark that existed in prehistoric times, from the Oligocene to Pleistocene epochs, approximately 25 to 1.5 million years ago. Paleontological research indicates that C. megalodon is among the largest and most powerful macro-predatory fishes in vertebrate history. C. megalodon is principally known from partially preserved skeletal remains, which indicate a shark of gigantic proportions — approaching a length of around 20.3 metres (67 ft). C. megalodon is widely regarded as the largest shark to have ever lived. After scrutiny of its remains, scientists have assigned C. megalodon to the order Lamniformes but its phylogeny is disputed. Scientists suggest that C. megalodon looked like a stockier version of the great white shark, Carcharodon carcharias, in life. Fossil evidence confirms that C. megalodon had a cosmopolitan distribution. C. megalodon was a super-predator, and bite marks on fossil bones of its victims indicate that it preyed upon large marine animals. 
Edited by Taipan, Jun 14 2012, 06:13 PM.
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| Wolf Eagle | Jan 7 2012, 01:01 AM Post #2 |
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M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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Shoot. I forgot to add a poll and it's not giving me the option. Is there a way you can do it for me Taipan or any other moderator? EDIT - I got it. Never mind. 
Edited by Wolf Eagle, Jan 7 2012, 03:42 AM.
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| Pliosaur | Jan 7 2012, 07:32 PM Post #3 |
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yeah,really don't know about this one. |
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| Elosha11 | Jan 7 2012, 10:31 PM Post #4 |
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Great to see Carnivora back, but it will be a travesty if all the accumulated information the old forum is lost for good. As for this contest, I think it is likely that Megalodon was bigger and had a larger and more devestating bite than Livyatan. But it is a very close contest that could go either way. Between two adult specimens, I give Megalodon 60/40. Edited by Elosha11, Jan 8 2012, 12:25 AM.
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| Wolf Eagle | Jan 8 2012, 12:48 AM Post #5 |
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M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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I'd say 50/50. The Livyatan has huge teeth, and a very strong bite. Maybe not stronger than that of the Megalodon, but still very strong. But Megalodon was a whale killer so... |
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| Pliosaur | Jan 8 2012, 02:11 AM Post #6 |
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hi Elosha I'm not sure about this but didn't megalodon became bigger after the miocene time? I mean we are sure that megalodon had reached 20m but are we sure that it can reached this length in miocene or that it grow with the whale after the miocene? It would be interresting to see this because I think that since the two animal lived in the same place in the same period we should use a miocene meg vs a miocene livyatan! |
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| Apex | Jan 8 2012, 07:42 AM Post #7 |
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I think meg will win but the livy will give one good fight |
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| Wolf Eagle | Jan 8 2012, 08:40 AM Post #8 |
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Well the Livyatan is definitely smarter due to it's highly advanced brain. It could somehow figure out a plan to kill the Megalodon. |
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| Elosha11 | Jan 8 2012, 12:43 PM Post #9 |
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No question Livyatan was smarter. But sharks in general are successful in killing similar-sized cetaceans. For instance, the great white shark, mako sharks, and bull sharks eat dolphins fairly frequently, even though dolphins are often bigger than bull sharks and comparable in size to makos. Likewise, great whites have been documented to prey on false killer whales, even though the dolphin is a formidable predator up to 18-20 feet long and with jaws and teeth comparable to an orca. Generally, I would favor a similar size GWS or mako over a comparably sized catacean. The situation is similar to Megalodon v. Livyatan. Also keep in mind that current evidence, and some pending unpublished research indicates that Megalodon was probably larger and heavier than Livyatan. Edited by Elosha11, Jan 8 2012, 12:45 PM.
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| DinosaurMichael | Jan 8 2012, 01:07 PM Post #10 |
 
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Megalodon has my vote. Much more faster, and agile. |
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Other sites I'm a member on. http://www.youtube.com/user/Dinospikester http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1613752/CrossoverMike http://mikespikester11.deviantart.com/ | |
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| Pliosaur | Jan 8 2012, 08:10 PM Post #11 |
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Rest that I'm not sure that the biggest meg were present during livyatan's time... for the megalodon jaws,I'm not sure now that it was far better than livyatan's jaws. I take an exemple: pliosaur posseded cutting tooth in the jurrassic but only piercing tooth in the cretaceous, so if we take a look to the evolution laws that would mean that cutting tooth<piercing tooth...maybe because piercing tooth are better for gripping pray  livyatan has also large tooth and with a presumed enormous bite force it will be able to break to bones or cartilage of the opponent or pray. I think also that livyatan's head is better for ram than megalodon nose. Elosha11,first are we sure that megalodon is close to GWS or mako since some scientist think that it doesn't look like them(so maybe we can't compare with modern exemple) for interaction between a GWS and FKW,I have only see one case of a FKW kill by a GWS but the circonstances of the fight are unclear,the FKW had been discovery on a beach with superficial bite marks. |
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| Grey | Jan 9 2012, 04:28 PM Post #12 |
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From all what we have for now, C.megalodon remains possibly larger. We have also clear evidences of its truly gigantic power and fierceness in fossil records and a fair indication of the lethality of its bite. Livyatan remains a contender but its holotype, though huge, is not bigger than the alleged size of the giant shark. We need more... |
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Reconstitute Extinct Species How They Looked Like, Not How You Want They Looked Like Animals, Not Monsters | |
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| Grey | Jan 9 2012, 05:55 PM Post #13 |
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From what I know, Megalodons fossils evidences (teeth, vertebras) from the Miocene of Peru indicate very large specimens. There are +18 cm teeth from this time. |
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Reconstitute Extinct Species How They Looked Like, Not How You Want They Looked Like Animals, Not Monsters | |
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| Pliosaur | Jan 9 2012, 07:12 PM Post #14 |
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I did not not discuss the lethality of 182,201 newtons bite force  only that we can't just say that piercing teeth<cutting teeth; of course livyatan is huge and of course megalodon is even more huge,but diid it reach a bigger size at the same place at the same time?
So largest megalodons of these time were up to 18m,That's strange since the whales of this period aren't so big how could a 80tonnes monster feed itself,it eat livyatan?
Edited by Pliosaur, Jan 9 2012, 07:13 PM.
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| Grey | Jan 9 2012, 07:51 PM Post #15 |
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18 m or so. There are evidences of very large Meg teeth from this time, especially from South America. There's nothing conclusive at now indicating that C.megalodon was much larger during Pliocene than Miocene, it was just barely hinted by one scientist. There were already large whales during Miocene, and in enough quantity for sustain on such large apex predators. Some whales bones from Ica indicate 16 m or so cetaceans. Nothing indicating C.megalodon preying L.melvillei at now, nore the other situation. All what we can found is that scientists respectively assume Livyatan preyed on small-medium sized cetaceans, whereas they assume that C.megalodon may have preyed on large (larger) whales, especially during Pliocene. That's why I believe C.megalodon still a superior (more powerful and dominant) predator than the cetacean. Unless we found more conclusive evidences of Livyatan predator-prey relationship, and also, evidences of larger or much larger individuals. 13,5 m- 17,5 m holotype surely does not correspond to the largest of its kind, but the teeth found with the skull are way larger than almost all the teeth found around the world from a similar species. Only a couple of teeth from Chile are alleged to be as large or slightly larger than the holotype's. However, Lambert and his pals does not hint about way larger individuals, despite the existence of these teeth and as pointed on the former forum, slightly larger teeth among cetaceans does not necessary correspond to larger animals. That's why we can just limit Livyatan up to 17,5 m, whereas Megalodon is currently described at 18 m and more. 20,3 m is cited in scientific litterature. By analogy, no modern odontocete similar in size to the great white shark, in this cas the False Killer Whale, is known to attack it. |
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Reconstitute Extinct Species How They Looked Like, Not How You Want They Looked Like Animals, Not Monsters | |
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