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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,279 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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Jinfengopteryx
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brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 22 2013, 07:46 PM
Their comparative dentary sizes are irrelevant as it doesn't actually prove anything in this match...
Not in this match, but they have an estimate debate and Verdugo has critisized theropods reconstruction, because he claimed the dentary to be too long in theropods skull reconstruction. Skull size matters a lot in this fight, as it could help to determine the size of Spinosaurus, with scaling up from it's relatives (you know that a size advantage would be important for Spinosaurus). Skull size would be important aswell for bite force, tough in bite force Tyrannosaurus anyway wins with ease, but Spinosaurus would still need at least a bite force strong enough to kill Tyrannosaurus. Also, Tyrannosaurus being more bird like is very irrelevant, Verdugo just said the Tyrannosaurus thing for comparision, to show how big the dentary size he believes in would be.
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Superiron21
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Jinfengopteryx
Jan 23 2013, 04:38 AM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 22 2013, 07:46 PM
Their comparative dentary sizes are irrelevant as it doesn't actually prove anything in this match...
Not in this match, but they have an estimate debate and Verdugo has critisized theropods reconstruction, because he claimed the dentary to be too long in theropods skull reconstruction. Skull size matters a lot in this fight, as it could help to determine the size of Spinosaurus, with scaling up from it's relatives (you know that a size advantage would be important for Spinosaurus). Skull size would be important aswell for bite force, tough in bite force Tyrannosaurus anyway wins with ease, but Spinosaurus would still need at least a bite force strong enough to kill Tyrannosaurus. Also, Tyrannosaurus being more bird like is very irrelevant, Verdugo just said the Tyrannosaurus thing for comparision, to show how big the dentary size he believes in would be.
I´m with you on that.... and by the way many scientists said that the bite force of spino was not designed for fighting (catching fish and preys really smaller comapring with it´s size) their hands are not so powerful they´re designed (even the claw to catch fishes and squeeze prey althought his claws could do damage ... yes but not mortal wonds to the robust body of t-rex.....
I´ve seen from a real expert a good explanation (push your 3rd finger with your first finge (spino bite) then push all the hand (T-rex bite)... If T-rex catch spino´s neck there won´t be coming back..... no matter it´s size
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SpinoInWonderland
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Superiron21
Jan 23 2013, 09:53 AM
Jinfengopteryx
Jan 23 2013, 04:38 AM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 22 2013, 07:46 PM
Their comparative dentary sizes are irrelevant as it doesn't actually prove anything in this match...
Not in this match, but they have an estimate debate and Verdugo has critisized theropods reconstruction, because he claimed the dentary to be too long in theropods skull reconstruction. Skull size matters a lot in this fight, as it could help to determine the size of Spinosaurus, with scaling up from it's relatives (you know that a size advantage would be important for Spinosaurus). Skull size would be important aswell for bite force, tough in bite force Tyrannosaurus anyway wins with ease, but Spinosaurus would still need at least a bite force strong enough to kill Tyrannosaurus. Also, Tyrannosaurus being more bird like is very irrelevant, Verdugo just said the Tyrannosaurus thing for comparision, to show how big the dentary size he believes in would be.
I´m with you on that.... and by the way many scientists said that the bite force of spino was not designed for fighting (catching fish and preys really smaller comapring with it´s size) their hands are not so powerful they´re designed (even the claw to catch fishes and squeeze prey althought his claws could do damage ... yes but not mortal wonds to the robust body of t-rex.....
I´ve seen from a real expert a good explanation (push your 3rd finger with your first finge (spino bite) then push all the hand (T-rex bite)... If T-rex catch spino´s neck there won´t be coming back..... no matter it´s size
Would you just stop with the bias? You're not looking at Spinosaurus' advantages...what makes you think that this would be a biting contest!? Spinosaurus would overpower and kill the Tyrannosaurus with it's size and strength...
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MightyMaus
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Spinosaurus is too big, rex can't even bite it's neck!
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Maelstrom
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Superiron21
Jan 23 2013, 09:53 AM
I´m with you on that.... and by the way many scientists said that the bite force of spino was not designed for fighting (catching fish and preys really smaller comapring with it´s size) their hands are not so powerful they´re designed (even the claw to catch fishes and squeeze prey althought his claws could do damage ... yes but not mortal wonds to the robust body of t-rex.....
I´ve seen from a real expert a good explanation (push your 3rd finger with your first finge (spino bite) then push all the hand (T-rex bite)... If T-rex catch spino´s neck there won´t be coming back..... no matter it´s size
Um... why would it aim for the 'robust' body of T.rex, wouldn't the head be a better target - look at the comparison I posted, it even lacks the keratin sheath. Even if it hit the Rex's body it would still cause a lot of damage.
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SpinoInWonderland
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MightyMaus
Jan 23 2013, 04:59 PM
rex can't even bite it's neck!
Actually it can, but it's chances at that are quite slim...
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theropod
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A scratch or grip with such a claws would cause pretty huge wounds, they could be deadly depending on where and they would certainly be weakening the tyrannosaur.
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Jinfengopteryx
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Superiron21
Jan 23 2013, 09:53 AM
I´m with you on that.... and by the way many scientists said that the bite force of spino was not designed for fighting (catching fish and preys really smaller comapring with it´s size) their hands are not so powerful they´re designed (even the claw to catch fishes and squeeze prey althought his claws could do damage ... yes but not mortal wonds to the robust body of t-rex.....
I´ve seen from a real expert a good explanation (push your 3rd finger with your first finge (spino bite) then push all the hand (T-rex bite)... If T-rex catch spino´s neck there won´t be coming back..... no matter it´s size
According to theropod, Spinosaurus may just have an ~2t bite, but in exchange it had quite a robust skull, so it's bite could be used for gripping quite well, especially because of it's teeth.
I know, Tyrannosaurus having a stronger bite is an advantage, so it can finish that fight quicklier, because a crushed bone can mean game over, to to the enormous shock.
In the othen handm due to Spinosaurus' good gripping jaws, Tyrannosaurus would have it hard to come free when Spinosaurus is able to bring a well placed bite. Also, even if Tyrannosaurus can Tyrannosaurus itself a tooth of Spinosaurus could get stuck in it's meat (due to their eloganted design and the fact that they could easily break), what could weaken it, if this happens, the fight could end badly for Tyrannosaurus.
So both can kill each other witht heir bites. I think Tyrannosaurus can end this fight faster, but in exchange Spinosaurus has a wider range, due being taller and having a longer snout.
I think this is a balanced one.
Edited by Jinfengopteryx, Feb 2 2013, 06:35 PM.
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MightyMaus
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Both can likely kill each other with a single neck bite. And Spinosaurus's 7 ton weight advantage, huge height and strength advantages, and the advantage of greater reach with both the arms and head tip the balance heavily in its favor. 85/15 Spinosaurus
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theropod
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I argue a bite force of ~2t to be likely because:

-I remember that was the result we got in the spinosaurus bite force thread based on a figure from Sakamoto
-I read this:
http://www.academia.edu/1812192/Structural_performance_of_tetanuran_theropod_skulls_with_emphasis_on_the_Megalosauridae_Spinosauridae_and_Carcharodontosauridae

It appears from a mere lateral view spinosaurus snout is weaker than Suchomimus`
I think it is likely this is balanced out by the broader rostrum, but It would be premature to say it was significantly stronger.
So the estimate directly based on baryonyx makes sense to me. People keep claiming that was a weak bite, but facts are, this is still an immense force, and if it got a good grip onto T. rex neck it wouldn´t be easy to shake off. The long teeth furthermore wouldn´t require a lot of strenght to puncture, and one has to keep in mind spinosaurus was probably able to feed on fishes whose scales could resist beign hit by an axe

Due to the massive mandible and the rostrum being more or less a solid piece of bone The skull could still possible resist quite a lot of force.

No wuestion, T. rex has the more potent bite. But on the other hand it would have problems biting most parts of spinosaurus or reaching the head and neck, especially if it has to be wary of a pair of 1,8m jaws and huge claws that might have rivaled those of terizinosaurus. due to its sheer size Spinosaurus wouldn´t have problems killing T. rex, one has to imagine the force it must have had in the combined neck and arms and the sheer weight, it could possibly simply topple it over if it caught it.
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Superiron21
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brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 23 2013, 12:12 PM
Superiron21
Jan 23 2013, 09:53 AM
Jinfengopteryx
Jan 23 2013, 04:38 AM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 22 2013, 07:46 PM
Their comparative dentary sizes are irrelevant as it doesn't actually prove anything in this match...
Not in this match, but they have an estimate debate and Verdugo has critisized theropods reconstruction, because he claimed the dentary to be too long in theropods skull reconstruction. Skull size matters a lot in this fight, as it could help to determine the size of Spinosaurus, with scaling up from it's relatives (you know that a size advantage would be important for Spinosaurus). Skull size would be important aswell for bite force, tough in bite force Tyrannosaurus anyway wins with ease, but Spinosaurus would still need at least a bite force strong enough to kill Tyrannosaurus. Also, Tyrannosaurus being more bird like is very irrelevant, Verdugo just said the Tyrannosaurus thing for comparision, to show how big the dentary size he believes in would be.
I´m with you on that.... and by the way many scientists said that the bite force of spino was not designed for fighting (catching fish and preys really smaller comapring with it´s size) their hands are not so powerful they´re designed (even the claw to catch fishes and squeeze prey althought his claws could do damage ... yes but not mortal wonds to the robust body of t-rex.....
I´ve seen from a real expert a good explanation (push your 3rd finger with your first finge (spino bite) then push all the hand (T-rex bite)... If T-rex catch spino´s neck there won´t be coming back..... no matter it´s size
Would you just stop with the bias? You're not looking at Spinosaurus' advantages...what makes you think that this would be a biting contest!? Spinosaurus would overpower and kill the Tyrannosaurus with it's size and strength...
I you don´t see the truth is your problem size is not the same as strenght (I´m not saying this, experts said)... spino was not stronger than t-rex even carcha was strongest than spino... but keep in your fantasy world the only advantage I see is size but only to intimidation no to fight...
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Maelstrom
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Superiron21
Jan 24 2013, 04:30 AM
I you don´t see the truth is your problem size is not the same as strenght (I´m not saying this, experts said)... spino was not stronger than t-rex even carcha was strongest than spino... but keep in your fantasy world the only advantage I see is size but only to intimidation no to fight...
Spino could have been twice as heavy as T.rex, if your bigger than you have to be stronger to support yourself.
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Superiron21
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theropod
Jan 24 2013, 03:13 AM
I argue a bite force of ~2t to be likely because:

-I remember that was the result we got in the spinosaurus bite force thread based on a figure from Sakamoto
-I read this:
http://www.academia.edu/1812192/Structural_performance_of_tetanuran_theropod_skulls_with_emphasis_on_the_Megalosauridae_Spinosauridae_and_Carcharodontosauridae

It appears from a mere lateral view spinosaurus snout is weaker than Suchomimus`
I think it is likely this is balanced out by the broader rostrum, but It would be premature to say it was significantly stronger.
So the estimate directly based on baryonyx makes sense to me. People keep claiming that was a weak bite, but facts are, this is still an immense force, and if it got a good grip onto T. rex neck it wouldn´t be easy to shake off. The long teeth furthermore wouldn´t require a lot of strenght to puncture, and one has to keep in mind spinosaurus was probably able to feed on fishes whose scales could resist beign hit by an axe

Due to the massive mandible and the rostrum being more or less a solid piece of bone The skull could still possible resist quite a lot of force.

No wuestion, T. rex has the more potent bite. But on the other hand it would have problems biting most parts of spinosaurus or reaching the head and neck, especially if it has to be wary of a pair of 1,8m jaws and huge claws that might have rivaled those of terizinosaurus. due to its sheer size Spinosaurus wouldn´t have problems killing T. rex, one has to imagine the force it must have had in the combined neck and arms and the sheer weight, it could possibly simply topple it over if it caught it.
what about reaching his throat? of course it could reach the neck maybe 1 or 2 head hits and then he could reach....
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Maelstrom
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Superiron21
Jan 24 2013, 04:38 AM
theropod
Jan 24 2013, 03:13 AM
I argue a bite force of ~2t to be likely because:

-I remember that was the result we got in the spinosaurus bite force thread based on a figure from Sakamoto
-I read this:
http://www.academia.edu/1812192/Structural_performance_of_tetanuran_theropod_skulls_with_emphasis_on_the_Megalosauridae_Spinosauridae_and_Carcharodontosauridae

It appears from a mere lateral view spinosaurus snout is weaker than Suchomimus`
I think it is likely this is balanced out by the broader rostrum, but It would be premature to say it was significantly stronger.
So the estimate directly based on baryonyx makes sense to me. People keep claiming that was a weak bite, but facts are, this is still an immense force, and if it got a good grip onto T. rex neck it wouldn´t be easy to shake off. The long teeth furthermore wouldn´t require a lot of strenght to puncture, and one has to keep in mind spinosaurus was probably able to feed on fishes whose scales could resist beign hit by an axe

Due to the massive mandible and the rostrum being more or less a solid piece of bone The skull could still possible resist quite a lot of force.

No wuestion, T. rex has the more potent bite. But on the other hand it would have problems biting most parts of spinosaurus or reaching the head and neck, especially if it has to be wary of a pair of 1,8m jaws and huge claws that might have rivaled those of terizinosaurus. due to its sheer size Spinosaurus wouldn´t have problems killing T. rex, one has to imagine the force it must have had in the combined neck and arms and the sheer weight, it could possibly simply topple it over if it caught it.
what about reaching his throat? of course it could reach the neck maybe 1 or 2 head hits and then he could reach....
One or two hits would be extremely fatal, Spino's claws were longer than T.rex's skull was thick.
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MightyMaus
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Superiron21
Jan 24 2013, 04:30 AM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 23 2013, 12:12 PM
Superiron21
Jan 23 2013, 09:53 AM
Jinfengopteryx
Jan 23 2013, 04:38 AM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 22 2013, 07:46 PM
Their comparative dentary sizes are irrelevant as it doesn't actually prove anything in this match...
Not in this match, but they have an estimate debate and Verdugo has critisized theropods reconstruction, because he claimed the dentary to be too long in theropods skull reconstruction. Skull size matters a lot in this fight, as it could help to determine the size of Spinosaurus, with scaling up from it's relatives (you know that a size advantage would be important for Spinosaurus). Skull size would be important aswell for bite force, tough in bite force Tyrannosaurus anyway wins with ease, but Spinosaurus would still need at least a bite force strong enough to kill Tyrannosaurus. Also, Tyrannosaurus being more bird like is very irrelevant, Verdugo just said the Tyrannosaurus thing for comparision, to show how big the dentary size he believes in would be.
I´m with you on that.... and by the way many scientists said that the bite force of spino was not designed for fighting (catching fish and preys really smaller comapring with it´s size) their hands are not so powerful they´re designed (even the claw to catch fishes and squeeze prey althought his claws could do damage ... yes but not mortal wonds to the robust body of t-rex.....
I´ve seen from a real expert a good explanation (push your 3rd finger with your first finge (spino bite) then push all the hand (T-rex bite)... If T-rex catch spino´s neck there won´t be coming back..... no matter it´s size
Would you just stop with the bias? You're not looking at Spinosaurus' advantages...what makes you think that this would be a biting contest!? Spinosaurus would overpower and kill the Tyrannosaurus with it's size and strength...
I you don´t see the truth is your problem size is not the same as strenght (I´m not saying this, experts said)... spino was not stronger than t-rex even carcha was strongest than spino... but keep in your fantasy world the only advantage I see is size but only to intimidation no to fight...
Think of it this way. Let's say Tyrannosaurus is a Jaguar, and Spinosaurus is a leopard, both weighing 250lbs. Of course the Jag is quite a bit stronger. Now imagine Tyranno is a 250lb Jag, and Spino is a 500lb leopard. Now, when factoring in the size advantage, you can easily see why spinosaurus would be far stronger in absolute terms than Tyrannosaurus.

For instance, Spinosaurus would be able to lift,carry,push,move, much heavier objects that Tyrannosaurus. Pushing moving is with body, not arms, although Spinosaurus has the advantage there too.
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