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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,273 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

Posted Image

Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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Godzillasaurus
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TheROC
Jan 25 2013, 01:41 PM
It is terrible that we'll have to wait for a new paper for as long as 2014 for Spinosaurus.

Until then, I really don't think its worth even discussing the outcome of a thread like this. We're living in pure uncertainty, and I don't feel comfortable making any kind of predictions, even if I make the caveatof 'if this is true, then this will be so' etc.

Agreed. This topic used to be very interesting. However, after a recent fanboy explosion, this thread became more of an unintelligent debate about which dinosaur was cooler.
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Grey
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It is not speculative, it is reportedly based on incoming data and new material.

It is too soon to argue anything as the work is not complete yet, but to now I favor a reconstruction by Magnuco, Dal Sasso and Cau than your opinion Broly.
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Godzillasaurus
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brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 25 2013, 01:42 PM
It also assumes that Spinosaurus was drastically different from relatives, which is not proven at all. Assuming that Spinosaurus was an oddball is far more speculative than assuming that it had the proportions of related spinosaurids...
It wasn't insanely different from its closest kin, but its jaws were more generalized and its teeth were possibly larger.

Spinosaurus skull: Posted Image

Suchomimus skull: Posted Image
Edited by Godzillasaurus, Jan 25 2013, 01:47 PM.
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TheROC
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'oddball' is a subjective term with no real merit.

Species can differ greatly, even when they are in the same family. Look no further than today.

There's nothing that determines that either postulation (scaled up proportions from smaller relatives vs unique proportions) is more credible than the other. Either is perfectly viable at this point.
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SpinoInWonderland
The madness has come back...
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Grey
Jan 25 2013, 01:43 PM
It is not speculative, it is reportedly based on incoming data and new material.

It is too soon to argue anything as the work is not complete yet, but to now I favor a reconstruction by Magnuco, Dal Sasso and Cau than your opinion Broly.
It is not my opinion, there are also reconstructions of it showing proportionally longer legs than that model.
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Grey
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brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 25 2013, 01:42 PM
It also assumes that Spinosaurus was drastically different from relatives, which is not proven at all. Assuming that Spinosaurus was an oddball is far more speculative than assuming that it had the proportions of related spinosaurids...
You have no experience for judge that.

This reconstruction is based on incoming new material studied by Dal Sasso (limbs) and Ibrahim (vertebras).


Like says TheROC, only that future publication will solve this match up.

Awaiting this, we are tired to see the fanatism of some with their made up 15 tons theropods.
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Grey
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brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 25 2013, 01:47 PM
Grey
Jan 25 2013, 01:43 PM
It is not speculative, it is reportedly based on incoming data and new material.

It is too soon to argue anything as the work is not complete yet, but to now I favor a reconstruction by Magnuco, Dal Sasso and Cau than your opinion Broly.
It is not my opinion, there are also reconstructions of it showing proportionally longer legs than that model.
But these reconstructions are not based on any new material whereas the one in Milan is.

And I ask the reliability of many of these reconstructions, viewing the level of objectivity of some members.
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SpinoInWonderland
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Posted Image
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SpinoInWonderland
The madness has come back...
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Grey
Jan 25 2013, 01:47 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 25 2013, 01:42 PM
It also assumes that Spinosaurus was drastically different from relatives, which is not proven at all. Assuming that Spinosaurus was an oddball is far more speculative than assuming that it had the proportions of related spinosaurids...
You have no experience for judge that.
Neither do you, or anyone else for that matter, Spinosaurus is very fragmentary. Unless we find a specimen which has a substantial amount of it preserved, no-one can be so certain about the true shape of Spinosaurus.

The skeletal I posted above shows how much of Spinosaurus has ever been found, so my point still stands.
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Grey
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And perhaps this one will be debunked by the new works, which are taking a long...We can expect some really fresh updates or confirmations.

Don't reject the reconstruction from Milan by pure favoritism.

Consider both and just wait.
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Godzillasaurus
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brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 25 2013, 01:52 PM
Grey
Jan 25 2013, 01:47 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 25 2013, 01:42 PM
It also assumes that Spinosaurus was drastically different from relatives, which is not proven at all. Assuming that Spinosaurus was an oddball is far more speculative than assuming that it had the proportions of related spinosaurids...
You have no experience for judge that.
Neither do you, or anyone else for that matter, Spinosaurus is very fragmentary. Unless we find a specimen which has a substantial amount of it preserved, no-one can be so certain about the true shape of Spinosaurus.

The skeletal I posted above shows how much of Spinosaurus has ever been found, so my point still stands.
True. Although, without good remains, how are we going to come to a logical conclusion? It should be totally evident that, without more remains to use, this discussion will not really go anywhere.
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Grey
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brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 25 2013, 01:52 PM
Grey
Jan 25 2013, 01:47 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 25 2013, 01:42 PM
It also assumes that Spinosaurus was drastically different from relatives, which is not proven at all. Assuming that Spinosaurus was an oddball is far more speculative than assuming that it had the proportions of related spinosaurids...
You have no experience for judge that.
Neither do you, or anyone else for that matter, Spinosaurus is very fragmentary. Unless we find a specimen which has a substantial amount of it preserved, no-one can be so certain about the true shape of Spinosaurus.

The skeletal I posted above shows how much of Spinosaurus has ever been found, so my point still stands.
That's what I'm explaining to you.

New material has been found and is under study. Based on this, they made that life size model. However, until the works are complete we cannot argue anything with certainity.

But it is logical that I have to chose, I would favor this reconstruction over yours.
Edited by Grey, Jan 25 2013, 01:58 PM.
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SpinoInWonderland
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Grey
Jan 25 2013, 01:56 PM
I would favor this reconstruction over yours.
The skeletal reconstruction is not mine
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Grey
Kleptoparasite
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I know, it is from Hartman and I know he's cautious with the reconstruction from Milan.

However, as much as I like Hartman works, he's not directly involved in the actual works on Spino, whereas the guys that supervised that life sized model are.

So, I'm cautious but somewhat more confident in that new updated Spino.
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MightyMaus
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I hope that new paper is published soon. But I find it hard to believe Spino's legs were that short. There are a couple juvenile Spino skeletons that are ~50% complete, and the seem to have pretty standard length legs.

If you want some pics of the juvies just search Drouot Spinosaurus.
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