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| Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,271 Views) | |
| Wolf Eagle | Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM Post #1 |
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M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() Spinosaurus aegyptiacus Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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| theropod | Jan 26 2013, 02:25 AM Post #1651 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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5,7>3>2 this all fits quite well. the calculation itself is basic math, but based on sakamotos figure and likely to hold true, unless there are any more precise explanation, not gut feelings ;-) The T. rex bite force and that for allosaurus which an approximate 3t bite for c. saharicus bases on are at least bpth from the same pretty recent source that gave precise figures, I would favour it over a very vagues statement every day. |
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| theropod | Jan 26 2013, 02:28 AM Post #1652 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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Oh, and the former two are anterior bite forces, while I'm not sure about spino, so it could potentially be weaker by comparison. |
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| Grey | Jan 26 2013, 02:46 AM Post #1653 |
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Kleptoparasite
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It could fit indeed. However, the problem, you mentioned it earlier, is that we are comparing this with the works from different authors, so no wonder the results vary. But I think we can safely assume that the order of theropods bite force potency here is correct, no matter the exact results for each species. This is clearly what Sakamoto strongly assumes in the board discussion I talked. Edited by Grey, Jan 26 2013, 02:47 AM.
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| Superiron21 | Jan 26 2013, 03:50 AM Post #1654 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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do you have proves that makes you think that Spino is 12 tons? i have support to say that T-rex is 9.5 tons....http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0026037 .... wake up... Strenght doesn´t mean weight... T-rex bones are more robust than spino, then the torso and neck is way to robust according to it's size.. conclusion T-rex is stronger than Spino... from Jp3 i was refering to the expert of wwe spino and the strenght and bite force that the real spino could never have....give me proves that the spino is not relative to baryonix and sucho.... then you have to disagree to all paleontologists that they were wrong.... Edited by Superiron21, Jan 26 2013, 03:56 AM.
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| theropod | Jan 26 2013, 03:54 AM Post #1655 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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yeah. now for the next problem, bite force is only one factor, jaw and tooth deign as well as postrcranial muscle involvement are others |
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| Grey | Jan 26 2013, 04:04 AM Post #1656 |
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Kleptoparasite
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Spinosaurus bite has not to be underestimated but I have doubts of its absolute potency on something like the neck of another massive theropod. The position of its teeth, their lack of serrations. The wounds would be certainly gruesome on any kind of thing, but with step back, it remains less devastative than the bite of a carcharodontosaurid and tyrannosaurid. The main argument for Spinosaurus defense remains its potential gigantic size, which would overpower any other kind of theropod. But this is not clear if it was that large/massive. Like I stated, if the future publication confirms the Milan depiction, I give it to Tyrannosaurus. |
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| theropod | Jan 26 2013, 05:02 AM Post #1657 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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I agree on that part, spinosaurus teeth are not as well suited for killing large animals as other giant theropods. Still, as you write, it must not be underestimated as its sheer size would have allowed it to do gruesome damage. In this case however, Spinosaurus claws are not the only weapon it has, its sheer size (which it definitely has, even at the lower end of estimates, even tough notably less significantly), together with large claws AND its jaws would certainly enable it to kill an opponent. The only question is, how good its chances are. I personally wouldn be too confident about lifesized models, but I would appreciate some more info on it. How long is the portrayed animal? is it meant to be MNSM-sized? And until the whole thing is published properly, I don feel like assuming it should have so drastically shorter legs than relatives. It could too be that this is the personal taste of the author (assigning the legs to a specimen of this size). |
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| Kurtz | Jan 26 2013, 05:27 AM Post #1658 |
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Kleptoparasite
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Spino claws in your opinion were good in a fight against t rex? For me not, i give the edge to T Rex |
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| Maelstrom | Jan 26 2013, 05:34 AM Post #1659 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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Spino's claws were definitely 'good' in a fight. |
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| Kurtz | Jan 26 2013, 05:47 AM Post #1660 |
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Kleptoparasite
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Do you think that arms of spino can wreslte the t rex?
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| Maelstrom | Jan 26 2013, 05:53 AM Post #1661 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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Claws are different to arms. This is what I meant by Spinosaurus claws being 'good' in a fight:
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| theropod | Jan 26 2013, 05:55 AM Post #1662 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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Depends on spinos size, if it was an 18m spinosaurus, maybe... At a bit more moderate size estimates, it does still easily have to power to use those giant claws in a deadly way, and in conjunction with it's raw physical force it could overpower T. rex with ease if it could catch it. |
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| Jinfengopteryx | Jan 26 2013, 05:57 AM Post #1663 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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About the claws, they certainly would be good, but I don't know how good they can be used, does anyone have data about the movement range of Spinosaurid arms, becuase when looking at other large theropods, it doesn't look like they had a very wide range of motion. http://s6.postimage.org/45446ie1t/Deinonychus_Allosaurus_T_rex_arms_movement.png Edited by Jinfengopteryx, Jan 26 2013, 06:02 AM.
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| Maelstrom | Jan 26 2013, 05:57 AM Post #1664 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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Yes your right that Spino claw is scaled to a 18 m individual, but the T.rex skull is also liberal (143 cm). |
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| Maelstrom | Jan 26 2013, 06:00 AM Post #1665 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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That would be important, the closest I found was on wikipedia 'The range of motion of theropod forelimbs were severely limited... This trait was not universal spinosaurids had well developed arms'
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i have support to say that T-rex is 9.5 tons....http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0026037 .... wake up... Strenght doesn´t mean weight... T-rex bones are more robust than spino, then the torso and neck is way to robust according to it's size.. conclusion T-rex is stronger than Spino... from Jp3 i was refering to the expert of wwe spino and the strenght and bite force that the real spino could never have....

'The range of motion of theropod forelimbs were severely limited... This trait was not universal spinosaurids had well developed arms'
2:23 AM Jul 14