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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,269 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

Posted Image

Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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Grey
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I would favor the oneI voted for...Spinosaurus. But in the light of possible new incoming evidences from the Kem Kem Beds and others theropods specialists opinions, this size and typical robust shape is far to be universally accepted. Check my few informations and pictures from the Milan life-sized model, based on the predictions of this all new stuff.
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Superiron21
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MightyMaus
Jan 26 2013, 07:43 AM
Here's how I see this fight going down. The Spinosaurus would approach the rex and try to intimidate it, if that failed and the rex attacked, the Spinosaurus would most likely have the advantage due to it's greater reach and size. Due to its reach advantage it would likely get the first bite in. I can't imagine a Tyrannosaurus escaping a ~2 ton bite from a 1.75-1.95 meter skull to the neck without SEVERE damage, if not outright death. The huge arms and size of the Spinosaurus would also help with controlling the rex. If the rex managed to survive the first bite, it may catch an arm and crush it. After that the Spino would likely knock the weakend rex over and finish it off.

IMO Tyrannosaurus would not have been able to easily engage the neck of a Spinosaurus, due to the spinosaurs large height and size advantage, not to mention the large and powerful arms.


Spinosaurus 90/10
your explanation is a lot like jp3... false...if Spino could bite T-rex (i doub it) is not the bite force enough to even penetrate its skin.... then the arms are a great deal but they´re not agile... the movement is like up and down... in the other hand if T-rex catch Spino bye there's no second chance....
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Superiron21
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7Alx
Jan 26 2013, 07:20 AM
Quote:
 
And JP3 Spinosaurus was only between 13.3 and 13.4 meters long, even IPHG 1912 outsizes it.


JP3 Spinosaurus is 16 ft tall, while holotype (based on Hartman's scalebar) is only 12 ft. And the head is even bigger than in MSNM V4047. The body is more massive... So JP3 would be bigger, despite shorter in length than holotype.
Agreed ...
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Superiron21
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Maelstrom
Jan 25 2013, 05:00 AM
Superiron21
Jan 25 2013, 04:46 AM
first the shape of it´s snout... (bite force weak may not weaker than previously) second it´s diet.... fish and little preys according to it´s enormous size (that was proved in the location of the spino were)... third form it's relatives was assumed that spino (torso and neck are a little narrowed according to it´s size in comparisson to giga and T-rex wasn´t so strong... again everything is speculation cause there´s no complete skeleton but maybe new spinos skeleton will be discovered in a few years...
I have already explained before about the bite force, it was weaker than Tyrannosaurus but not weak in general. It's diet wasn't exactly little, it preyed on huge armored fish, sharks and possible crocodiles. Just because Spino had smaller prey than T.rex does not mean it was worse adapted to taking on large predators. Spinosaurus's location supported that it must have had some form of defense against large predators, it coexisted with several large predators (Carcharodontosaurus, Deltadromeus, Bahariasaurus, Rugops etc) while T.rex co-existed with no other large predator. Spinosaur torso's are not narrowed at all, they have quite narrow skulls but their bodies are quite wide. Look at this Suchomimus skeletal:

Posted Image

Spinosaurus was a spinosaurine rather than a baryonychine, it was more generalized than relatives like Suchomimus and Baryonyx, it's skull was much more robust and remains of other spinosaurines - like Irritator - suggested that it's torso was slightly more robust.
wich type of sharks lived more than 65 million years in lakes? prey and hunting today is the best way to prove what an animal is capable doing in fights.... lions, tigers..... and that spino was with other theropods doesn't mean that Spino could interact with them (according to his presence in lakes and near.... that shouldn´t happen).. maybe could be the opposite, besides Spino only advantage I consider is intimidation but If were about a prey Spino would have loose even with carcha... that we don't know... not to mention that have to coexist with another excelent preys like triceratops or ankylosaurus to mention a few or in T-rex's pride that T-rex have face to other T-rex (that´s proved) then more experience in combat....

I don't see any robust neck and torso according to it's body in the image... according to it´s size spino´s torso and neck were more narrowed than T-rex and Giga.... sorry pal but it'r relatives porved were baryonix and suchominus... then the lenght that you told me doesn't match? because they used sucho and baryonix to measure spino's size.....
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Superiron21
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MysteryMeat
Jan 26 2013, 06:36 AM
Asaurus
Jan 26 2013, 06:22 AM
Superiron21
Jan 26 2013, 03:50 AM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 25 2013, 11:25 AM
Superiron21
 
dude... seriously you think spinosaurs has the strenght to kill t-rex?


Yes.

It's a 12-tonne theropod vs a 6-tonne one...


Superiron21
 
well that´s your "poin of view" but can you give me real data that proves that because all the data that spinosaurus has (with less 15% of the specimen) everything is about suchominus and baryonix and those were not strong...


They were much smaller than Spinosaurus, thus they are weaker. Common sense man...

Superiron21
 
Spino is larger yeah but I don´t think is much taller than T-rex...


Do I need to make a size comparison to embarass you? Spinosaurus was taller than Tyrannosaurus, AT HIP HEIGHT.

Superiron21
 
heavier? yea yea.-... T-rex bones are robust and consequently stronger are you counting the sail as giving spino strenght that only gives spino tons but not strenght......


Sail? It's more likely a muscular ridge.

Read carefully.

The spines of Spinosaurus do not actually resemble the spines of the sailbacked animals. They are too broad, and the spaces between the spines are too small to effectively span skin in between.

Sailbacks don't have broad spines, they have thin rods. If Spinosaurus had a sail, it would have thin rods, but that is not the case.

Spinosaurus:
Posted Image

Dimetrodon:
Posted Image

In fact, the spines of Spinosaurus resemble those of bison more than those of Dimetrodon.

However, a hump would have been too heavy for a biped.

Thus, the most likely, is that Spinosaurus had a muscular ridge.
Similar to that Acrocanthosaurus likely had, but much taller.

This is further supported by the fact that broad spines are used as muscle attachments in living animals.


Superiron21
 
that´s the real difference when you said about aparatosaurus (i don´t know how to write it sorry) the strenght is in it´s tail and neck...


And it's torso as well. Actually, most of Apatosaurus' strength is at it's torso and legs.

Superiron21
 
and muscles of T-rex were stronger to carry that big head....


Spinosaurus needed stronger muscles to carry itself, let alone move. And Spinosaurus needed to take on Bahariasaurus, Sauroniops, and Carcharodontosaurus.

Superiron21
 
man could you please understand that spino is not designed to fight big theropods?


Dinosaur George is not a reliable source.

Superiron21
 
that´s proved... you said this is not fighting bite force... but they´re not humans to play wwe the bite is the most important thing even today with most of predators...


Giant theropods =/= Modern Predators

Superiron21
 
Spino´s bite could never penetrate an structure that big of T-rex even his hands can´t deal with it...that was proved according to the few parts spino skeleton has, maybe make injuries but not deadly.... man jp3 spino was not the animal that lived many millions of years ago... that was the wrong vision of the spino... please wake up and do real research according to the real spinosaurus.....


It was not proven, stop making up BS.

And JP3 Spinosaurus was only between 13.3 and 13.4 meters long, even IPHG 1912 outsizes it.
do you have proves that makes you think that Spino is 12 tons? lol i have support to say that T-rex is 9.5 tons....http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0026037 .... wake up... Strenght doesn´t mean weight... T-rex bones are more robust than spino, then the torso and neck is way to robust according to it's size.. conclusion T-rex is stronger than Spino... from Jp3 i was refering to the expert of wwe spino and the strenght and bite force that the real spino could never have....
give me proves that the spino is not relative to baryonix and sucho.... then you have to disagree to all paleontologists that they were wrong....
T.rex 9 tons? Here's why I don't think T.rex was 9 tons; it had hollow bones like that of a bird, so it probably would've weighed less than it may seem. Nevertheless, T.rex was still heavy and IMO was 7 tons.
It's still denser than most birds. Just look at the skeleton. Rex has a much more robust skeleton.
The density is around 890kg/m^3 in adult specimens. Large specimens like Sue, is probably 8000kg-9000kg.
7000kg is more likely an average sized specimen.
I´m with you in that...
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Superiron21
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Grey
Jan 26 2013, 07:58 AM
MightyMaus
Jan 26 2013, 07:43 AM
Here's how I see this fight going down. The Spinosaurus would approach the rex and try to intimidate it, if that failed and the rex attacked, the Spinosaurus would most likely have the advantage due to it's greater reach and size. Due to its reach advantage it would likely get the first bite in. I can't imagine a Tyrannosaurus escaping a ~2 ton bite from a 1.75-1.95 meter skull to the neck without SEVERE damage, if not outright death. The huge arms and size of the Spinosaurus would also help with controlling the rex. If the rex managed to survive the first bite, it may catch an arm and crush it. After that the Spino would likely knock the weakend rex over and finish it off.

IMO Tyrannosaurus would not have been able to easily engage the neck of a Spinosaurus, due to the spinosaurs large height and size advantage, not to mention the large and powerful arms.


Spinosaurus 90/10
You don't keep in mind that these measurements you use for Spinosaurus are far to be factual at now, this is what we are discussing for the progress of the discussion with the guys. Just like the alleged bite force. If we want argue, T.rex had to deal with...others T.rex. Yet, numerous healed scars from fights are known...


I don't know either where you get with such certainity that Spinosaurus is so much higher.
agreed spino was larger but not that much and that taller I don't think so
Edited by Superiron21, Jan 26 2013, 10:47 AM.
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Superiron21
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MysteryMeat
Jan 26 2013, 06:36 AM
Asaurus
Jan 26 2013, 06:22 AM
Superiron21
Jan 26 2013, 03:50 AM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 25 2013, 11:25 AM
Superiron21
 
dude... seriously you think spinosaurs has the strenght to kill t-rex?


Yes.

It's a 12-tonne theropod vs a 6-tonne one...


Superiron21
 
well that´s your "poin of view" but can you give me real data that proves that because all the data that spinosaurus has (with less 15% of the specimen) everything is about suchominus and baryonix and those were not strong...


They were much smaller than Spinosaurus, thus they are weaker. Common sense man...

Superiron21
 
Spino is larger yeah but I don´t think is much taller than T-rex...


Do I need to make a size comparison to embarass you? Spinosaurus was taller than Tyrannosaurus, AT HIP HEIGHT.

Superiron21
 
heavier? yea yea.-... T-rex bones are robust and consequently stronger are you counting the sail as giving spino strenght that only gives spino tons but not strenght......


Sail? It's more likely a muscular ridge.

Read carefully.

The spines of Spinosaurus do not actually resemble the spines of the sailbacked animals. They are too broad, and the spaces between the spines are too small to effectively span skin in between.

Sailbacks don't have broad spines, they have thin rods. If Spinosaurus had a sail, it would have thin rods, but that is not the case.

Spinosaurus:
Posted Image

Dimetrodon:
Posted Image

In fact, the spines of Spinosaurus resemble those of bison more than those of Dimetrodon.

However, a hump would have been too heavy for a biped.

Thus, the most likely, is that Spinosaurus had a muscular ridge.
Similar to that Acrocanthosaurus likely had, but much taller.

This is further supported by the fact that broad spines are used as muscle attachments in living animals.


Superiron21
 
that´s the real difference when you said about aparatosaurus (i don´t know how to write it sorry) the strenght is in it´s tail and neck...


And it's torso as well. Actually, most of Apatosaurus' strength is at it's torso and legs.

Superiron21
 
and muscles of T-rex were stronger to carry that big head....


Spinosaurus needed stronger muscles to carry itself, let alone move. And Spinosaurus needed to take on Bahariasaurus, Sauroniops, and Carcharodontosaurus.

Superiron21
 
man could you please understand that spino is not designed to fight big theropods?


Dinosaur George is not a reliable source.

Superiron21
 
that´s proved... you said this is not fighting bite force... but they´re not humans to play wwe the bite is the most important thing even today with most of predators...


Giant theropods =/= Modern Predators

Superiron21
 
Spino´s bite could never penetrate an structure that big of T-rex even his hands can´t deal with it...that was proved according to the few parts spino skeleton has, maybe make injuries but not deadly.... man jp3 spino was not the animal that lived many millions of years ago... that was the wrong vision of the spino... please wake up and do real research according to the real spinosaurus.....


It was not proven, stop making up BS.

And JP3 Spinosaurus was only between 13.3 and 13.4 meters long, even IPHG 1912 outsizes it.
do you have proves that makes you think that Spino is 12 tons? lol i have support to say that T-rex is 9.5 tons....http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0026037 .... wake up... Strenght doesn´t mean weight... T-rex bones are more robust than spino, then the torso and neck is way to robust according to it's size.. conclusion T-rex is stronger than Spino... from Jp3 i was refering to the expert of wwe spino and the strenght and bite force that the real spino could never have....
give me proves that the spino is not relative to baryonix and sucho.... then you have to disagree to all paleontologists that they were wrong....
T.rex 9 tons? Here's why I don't think T.rex was 9 tons; it had hollow bones like that of a bird, so it probably would've weighed less than it may seem. Nevertheless, T.rex was still heavy and IMO was 7 tons.
It's still denser than most birds. Just look at the skeleton. Rex has a much more robust skeleton.
The density is around 890kg/m^3 in adult specimens. Large specimens like Sue, is probably 8000kg-9000kg.
7000kg is more likely an average sized specimen.
@broleyupfusion ohh wow how can you even know that if you don't even know his name and put his nickname.. George Blasing is a self taught paleontologist and animal behaviorist with more than 35 years of study and research Blasing is a public speaker, writer and television personality who has performed live to over 2 million people and has lectured in over 2800 museums, schools and public events.
George Blasing has spent over 17 years teaching Elementary, Intermediate and Middle school students about the amazing creatures that once ruled our planet. And with the addition of his latest program, Museum in the Classroom, he is now able to bring an entire museum to the schools he visits.
He knows more paleontology that some "experts" and he proved only haters doesn't think that....
Edited by Superiron21, Jan 26 2013, 10:52 AM.
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Superiron21
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@broleyupfusion Giant theropods =/= Modern Predators well..... thanks for ilustrating me but I don't buy it how they hunt with arrows and knives? lol
Edited by Superiron21, Jan 26 2013, 09:29 AM.
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Superiron21
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Grey
Jan 25 2013, 10:37 AM
Any bite and saliva is potentially toxic, so if Tyrannosaurus had a toxic bite, allosauroids and others possibly had too.

The Komodo has lots of a potent bacterias but it turns out its bites are lethal primarily because of some venomous amount, though this is still disputed to my knowledge.

However, dinosaurs appears to have been very durable creatures, and T.rex specimens show deep wounds and scars from probable intra-specific bites, without having consequently succumbed.

In such a clash of the giant, the animals would die most likely, at least most of the time, because of the direct damages inflcted by the bite and teeth, not because of the infection.

I have hard time at no to judge Spinosaurus bite force as wel as the width of its skull.

Looking at some skulls models made by users here, though not weak as some argue, it does not stand the comparison in my opinion with full grown T.rex skulls in sheer robustness.

However, others models I've seen shows a somewhat more robust shape. Still, can this be confirmed ?

Same for the bite force, I've seen numerous times the mention of 2 tons or more of bite force for Spinosaurus.

I have to recall that this figure was made by some poster, not resulted from an experimented scholar work.

Sakamoto seem to think that Spinosaurus bitten weaker than carcharotosaurids, which are supposed to have bitten three times weaker than Tyrannosaurus according to Therrien et al.

And this is from a work of Sakamoto about Baryonyx bite force that the prediction of Spinosaurus biting at 2 tons or more was made on this forum.

Two possibilities : Sakamoto only guessed his remark in askabiologist about Spinosaurus bite or the calculation from a member (too much often taken as a fact by users here) is flawed.

What is certain is that at now, we don't have posterior part of the skull of Spinosaurus allowing to know the volume of its skull and bite force and we don't have more elements allowing to establish the true size of the owner of the snout found by Dal Sasso in 2005.

However, look at this :


Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

Tyrannosaurus :

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

If Spinosaurus turns out to be such shaped like this life-sized recreation (that Dal Sasso, Magnuco and Cau claim to be the most reliable in the world and based on incoming research about new elements of the vertebral column and limbs), if it appeared to have been definitely like this, what do you think about the fight against Tyrannosaurus here ?


IMO, what I see here is not the weak fish-eater some argues (look at the robust front arms and massive body), nor the gigantic unstoppable warrior dwarfing any other theropod thinked by others either. It would be a powerful, dangerous foe that T.rex would have to deal with, but T.rex has definitely the weaponry to subdue that thing. Spinosaurus neck is easily reachable. T.rex, full grown and in its robust form, takes this more ofen than not.

This is my initial opinion at this very first glance, depending if this reconstruction (made by the actual world authorities in spinosaurid research) turns out to be confirmed as reliable in its depiction of Spinosaurus. If true, a large T.rex most likely takes it.
I don't think Spino is weak but What I´ve said is that Spino could not defeat such a big and powerful animal as T-rex.... its trait said that.... that spino could be compared to this T-rex Posted Image
Posted Image
However I think that spino is a little oversized but could be confirmed in a few years.-... just that size is not proved....
Edited by Superiron21, Jan 26 2013, 10:13 AM.
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MightyMaus
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Jan 26 2013, 08:59 AM
MightyMaus
Jan 26 2013, 07:43 AM
Here's how I see this fight going down. The Spinosaurus would approach the rex and try to intimidate it, if that failed and the rex attacked, the Spinosaurus would most likely have the advantage due to it's greater reach and size. Due to its reach advantage it would likely get the first bite in. I can't imagine a Tyrannosaurus escaping a ~2 ton bite from a 1.75-1.95 meter skull to the neck without SEVERE damage, if not outright death. The huge arms and size of the Spinosaurus would also help with controlling the rex. If the rex managed to survive the first bite, it may catch an arm and crush it. After that the Spino would likely knock the weakend rex over and finish it off.

IMO Tyrannosaurus would not have been able to easily engage the neck of a Spinosaurus, due to the spinosaurs large height and size advantage, not to mention the large and powerful arms.


Spinosaurus 90/10
your explanation is a lot like jp3... false...if Spino could bite T-rex (i doub it) is not the bite force enough to even penetrate its skin.... then the arms are a great deal but they´re not agile... the movement is like up and down... in the other hand if T-rex catch Spino bye there's no second chance....
Don't be an idiot...Tyrannosaurus wasn't made of steel, a Spinosaurs bite would have done a hell of a lot more than penetrated the skin. And please refrain from posting 8 times in a row, it is frowned upon.
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SpinoInWonderland
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Superiron21
Jan 26 2013, 03:50 AM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 25 2013, 11:25 AM
Superiron21
 
dude... seriously you think spinosaurs has the strenght to kill t-rex?


Yes.

It's a 12-tonne theropod vs a 6-tonne one...


Superiron21
 
well that´s your "poin of view" but can you give me real data that proves that because all the data that spinosaurus has (with less 15% of the specimen) everything is about suchominus and baryonix and those were not strong...


They were much smaller than Spinosaurus, thus they are weaker. Common sense man...

Superiron21
 
Spino is larger yeah but I don´t think is much taller than T-rex...


Do I need to make a size comparison to embarass you? Spinosaurus was taller than Tyrannosaurus, AT HIP HEIGHT.

Superiron21
 
heavier? yea yea.-... T-rex bones are robust and consequently stronger are you counting the sail as giving spino strenght that only gives spino tons but not strenght......


Sail? It's more likely a muscular ridge.

Read carefully.

The spines of Spinosaurus do not actually resemble the spines of the sailbacked animals. They are too broad, and the spaces between the spines are too small to effectively span skin in between.

Sailbacks don't have broad spines, they have thin rods. If Spinosaurus had a sail, it would have thin rods, but that is not the case.

Spinosaurus:
Posted Image

Dimetrodon:
Posted Image

In fact, the spines of Spinosaurus resemble those of bison more than those of Dimetrodon.

However, a hump would have been too heavy for a biped.

Thus, the most likely, is that Spinosaurus had a muscular ridge.
Similar to that Acrocanthosaurus likely had, but much taller.

This is further supported by the fact that broad spines are used as muscle attachments in living animals.


Superiron21
 
that´s the real difference when you said about aparatosaurus (i don´t know how to write it sorry) the strenght is in it´s tail and neck...


And it's torso as well. Actually, most of Apatosaurus' strength is at it's torso and legs.

Superiron21
 
and muscles of T-rex were stronger to carry that big head....


Spinosaurus needed stronger muscles to carry itself, let alone move. And Spinosaurus needed to take on Bahariasaurus, Sauroniops, and Carcharodontosaurus.

Superiron21
 
man could you please understand that spino is not designed to fight big theropods?


Dinosaur George is not a reliable source.

Superiron21
 
that´s proved... you said this is not fighting bite force... but they´re not humans to play wwe the bite is the most important thing even today with most of predators...


Giant theropods =/= Modern Predators

Superiron21
 
Spino´s bite could never penetrate an structure that big of T-rex even his hands can´t deal with it...that was proved according to the few parts spino skeleton has, maybe make injuries but not deadly.... man jp3 spino was not the animal that lived many millions of years ago... that was the wrong vision of the spino... please wake up and do real research according to the real spinosaurus.....


It was not proven, stop making up BS.

And JP3 Spinosaurus was only between 13.3 and 13.4 meters long, even IPHG 1912 outsizes it.
do you have proves that makes you think that Spino is 12 tons? lol i have support to say that T-rex is 9.5 tons....http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0026037 .... wake up... Strenght doesn´t mean weight... T-rex bones are more robust than spino, then the torso and neck is way to robust according to it's size.. conclusion T-rex is stronger than Spino... from Jp3 i was refering to the expert of wwe spino and the strenght and bite force that the real spino could never have....
give me proves that the spino is not relative to baryonix and sucho.... then you have to disagree to all paleontologists that they were wrong....
I am running low on patience with you.

A 12-tonne Spinosaurus can be achieved by scaling up from relatives. The 9.5-tonne Tyrannosaurus is an EXAGGERATED FAT SAUSAGE, and again, you demonstrate ignorance by stating that Tyrannosaurus was stronger...Spinosaurus was stronger, how can an animal be stronger than an animal twice it's mass?

And again, MSNM V4047 would crush JP3 Spinosaurus...why are you guys saying that JP3 exaggerated Spinosaurus' strength?

And I NEVER stated that Spinosaurus was not a relative of Baryonyx and Suchomimus...
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SpinoInWonderland
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Superiron21
Jan 26 2013, 09:25 AM
MysteryMeat
Jan 26 2013, 06:36 AM
Asaurus
Jan 26 2013, 06:22 AM
Superiron21
Jan 26 2013, 03:50 AM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 25 2013, 11:25 AM
Superiron21
 
dude... seriously you think spinosaurs has the strenght to kill t-rex?


Yes.

It's a 12-tonne theropod vs a 6-tonne one...


Superiron21
 
well that´s your "poin of view" but can you give me real data that proves that because all the data that spinosaurus has (with less 15% of the specimen) everything is about suchominus and baryonix and those were not strong...


They were much smaller than Spinosaurus, thus they are weaker. Common sense man...

Superiron21
 
Spino is larger yeah but I don´t think is much taller than T-rex...


Do I need to make a size comparison to embarass you? Spinosaurus was taller than Tyrannosaurus, AT HIP HEIGHT.

Superiron21
 
heavier? yea yea.-... T-rex bones are robust and consequently stronger are you counting the sail as giving spino strenght that only gives spino tons but not strenght......


Sail? It's more likely a muscular ridge.

Read carefully.

The spines of Spinosaurus do not actually resemble the spines of the sailbacked animals. They are too broad, and the spaces between the spines are too small to effectively span skin in between.

Sailbacks don't have broad spines, they have thin rods. If Spinosaurus had a sail, it would have thin rods, but that is not the case.

Spinosaurus:
Posted Image

Dimetrodon:
Posted Image

In fact, the spines of Spinosaurus resemble those of bison more than those of Dimetrodon.

However, a hump would have been too heavy for a biped.

Thus, the most likely, is that Spinosaurus had a muscular ridge.
Similar to that Acrocanthosaurus likely had, but much taller.

This is further supported by the fact that broad spines are used as muscle attachments in living animals.


Superiron21
 
that´s the real difference when you said about aparatosaurus (i don´t know how to write it sorry) the strenght is in it´s tail and neck...


And it's torso as well. Actually, most of Apatosaurus' strength is at it's torso and legs.

Superiron21
 
and muscles of T-rex were stronger to carry that big head....


Spinosaurus needed stronger muscles to carry itself, let alone move. And Spinosaurus needed to take on Bahariasaurus, Sauroniops, and Carcharodontosaurus.

Superiron21
 
man could you please understand that spino is not designed to fight big theropods?


Dinosaur George is not a reliable source.

Superiron21
 
that´s proved... you said this is not fighting bite force... but they´re not humans to play wwe the bite is the most important thing even today with most of predators...


Giant theropods =/= Modern Predators

Superiron21
 
Spino´s bite could never penetrate an structure that big of T-rex even his hands can´t deal with it...that was proved according to the few parts spino skeleton has, maybe make injuries but not deadly.... man jp3 spino was not the animal that lived many millions of years ago... that was the wrong vision of the spino... please wake up and do real research according to the real spinosaurus.....


It was not proven, stop making up BS.

And JP3 Spinosaurus was only between 13.3 and 13.4 meters long, even IPHG 1912 outsizes it.
do you have proves that makes you think that Spino is 12 tons? lol i have support to say that T-rex is 9.5 tons....http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0026037 .... wake up... Strenght doesn´t mean weight... T-rex bones are more robust than spino, then the torso and neck is way to robust according to it's size.. conclusion T-rex is stronger than Spino... from Jp3 i was refering to the expert of wwe spino and the strenght and bite force that the real spino could never have....
give me proves that the spino is not relative to baryonix and sucho.... then you have to disagree to all paleontologists that they were wrong....
T.rex 9 tons? Here's why I don't think T.rex was 9 tons; it had hollow bones like that of a bird, so it probably would've weighed less than it may seem. Nevertheless, T.rex was still heavy and IMO was 7 tons.
It's still denser than most birds. Just look at the skeleton. Rex has a much more robust skeleton.
The density is around 890kg/m^3 in adult specimens. Large specimens like Sue, is probably 8000kg-9000kg.
7000kg is more likely an average sized specimen.
@broleyupfusion ohh wow how can you even know that if you don't even know his name and put his nickname.. George Blasing is a self taught paleontologist and animal behaviorist with more than 35 years of study and research Blasing is a public speaker, writer and television personality who has performed live to over 2 million people and has lectured in over 2800 museums, schools and public events.
George Blasing has spent over 17 years teaching Elementary, Intermediate and Middle school students about the amazing creatures that once ruled our planet. And with the addition of his latest program, Museum in the Classroom, he is now able to bring an entire museum to the schools he visits.
He knows more paleontology that some "experts" and he proved only haters doesn't think that....
"Dinosaur George" hosted the crap pseudodocumentary that is Jurassic Fight Club...Do I need to state how bad it is?

There are a lot more reliable researchers/palaeontologists than him...even Jack Horner is more reliable than him...
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MysteryMeat
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brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 26 2013, 01:17 PM
A 12-tonne Spinosaurus can be achieved by scaling up from relatives. The 9.5-tonne Tyrannosaurus is an EXAGGERATED FAT SAUSAGE, and again, you demonstrate ignorance by stating that Tyrannosaurus was stronger...Spinosaurus was stronger, how can an animal be stronger than an animal twice it's mass?

And again, MSNM V4047 would crush JP3 Spinosaurus...why are you guys saying that JP3 exaggerated Spinosaurus' strength?

And I NEVER stated that Spinosaurus was not a relative of Baryonyx and Suchomimus...
The JP3 Spino has pretty big forelimbs and a 6 foot long head that's about twice as wide as MSNM V4047's head though...

Is Spino always twice as big? We don't know, I don't think it's likely. The life size model in Italy, which is supposed to be the most accurate one, according to grey, is 15.8 meters long. You underestimate rex size anyways. A 6000 kg rex is a small individual. 9500 kg Sue has a torso too long, but it is NOT a fat sausage. You pull out the same argument against every new guy around here, one spino specimen against your "average" T. rex, which is biased to begin with.
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Jinfengopteryx
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Superiron21
Jan 26 2013, 03:50 AM
do you have proves that makes you think that Spino is 12 tons?
Below, I've written more detailed how he figured out that weight.
Superiron21
Jan 26 2013, 03:50 AM
lol i have support to say that T-rex is 9.5 tons.... http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0026037
The ribs are mispositioned there. If they were not, the volume would be overall lower, so the weight woud be. I more believe in 8t, because it was stated by quite a lot of scientists (Mazzetta, Hotz, the authors of the growth rate paper...).

P.S. Please use the multi-quote system, if you want to reply to multiple people.

brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 26 2013, 01:17 PM
A 12-tonne Spinosaurus can be achieved by scaling up from relatives.
I looked at the weights given in the Therrien and Henderson paper (not the ones they made, rather what they listed in published body mass/length estimates.http://dinoweb.ucoz.ru/_fr/4/My_theropod_is_.pdf)

Baryonyx:
Skull length: 0,91m
TL: 8,5-9,5m
Mass: 1,7t

Suchomimus:
Skull length: 1,19m
TL: 11,0m
Mass: 3,8t

(I use a 1,75m skull for these estimates)

Baryonyx based:
TL: 16,3-18,3m
Mass: 12,1t

Suchomimus:
TL: 16,2m
Mass: 12t

Therefore, I agree with you.
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 26 2013, 01:17 PM
The 9.5-tonne Tyrannosaurus is an EXAGGERATED FAT SAUSAGE
I know, I've too ealier said this all the time, but it is not a fat sausage, it just filled the outline. It simply has a wrong rib position what made it heavier (So I too think it weighed less than 9t, but 6t is too low for it in my opinion.). Everything above 11t, can be called realy fatty.
So, please stop always posting this, this is becoming a bit annoying.
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theropod
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I don't think using averages is a good idea, mainly because even in T. rex we lack a reliable average, but certainly using the largest T. rex at its largest estimate and still using low estimates for the one and only adult spino (that could have been a particularly small specimen as well as a particularly large one, which an average one would be in between of) isn't either.

It would definitely be fair to assume spinosaurus had a massive size advantage.
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