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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,268 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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mega t.rex the magnificent
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Superiron21
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MightyMaus
Jan 26 2013, 11:14 AM
Superiron21
Jan 26 2013, 08:59 AM
MightyMaus
Jan 26 2013, 07:43 AM
Here's how I see this fight going down. The Spinosaurus would approach the rex and try to intimidate it, if that failed and the rex attacked, the Spinosaurus would most likely have the advantage due to it's greater reach and size. Due to its reach advantage it would likely get the first bite in. I can't imagine a Tyrannosaurus escaping a ~2 ton bite from a 1.75-1.95 meter skull to the neck without SEVERE damage, if not outright death. The huge arms and size of the Spinosaurus would also help with controlling the rex. If the rex managed to survive the first bite, it may catch an arm and crush it. After that the Spino would likely knock the weakend rex over and finish it off.

IMO Tyrannosaurus would not have been able to easily engage the neck of a Spinosaurus, due to the spinosaurs large height and size advantage, not to mention the large and powerful arms.


Spinosaurus 90/10
your explanation is a lot like jp3... false...if Spino could bite T-rex (i doub it) is not the bite force enough to even penetrate its skin.... then the arms are a great deal but they´re not agile... the movement is like up and down... in the other hand if T-rex catch Spino bye there's no second chance....
Don't be an idiot...Tyrannosaurus wasn't made of steel, a Spinosaurs bite would have done a hell of a lot more than penetrated the skin. And please refrain from posting 8 times in a row, it is frowned upon.

@MightyMaus
oh right defendig himself with insults... about a pathetic and illiteral person... I've never said that was made of steel.... according TO REAL DATA Spinosaurus bite force could never do real damage to T.rex... his "huge arms" are not WWE agility... large size does't mean tall.... Spinosaurus was larger but not as taller as here is represented.... conclusion T-rex could bite his neck and crush it... Sorry for the mistakes of posting I´m new here....

@broleyupfusion Your arguments are pathetic...
"Do I need to make a size comparison to embarass you? Spinosaurus was taller than Tyrannosaurus, AT HIP HEIGHT."
I agree tha Spino is taller but not the size that here most of lovers saying
"Sail? It's more likely a muscular ridge."
I don't see that is a muscular... most of the paleontologist think that the sail was for thermoregulation.... and the sail is more fragile than strong....
"Spinosaurus needed stronger muscles to carry itself, let alone move. And Spinosaurus needed to take on Bahariasaurus, Sauroniops, and Carcharodontosaurus."
his composition is weaker than most other theropods.... you're of those fools that think Spinosaurus could carry his body with his arms? don't be fool Spinosaurus is not able to take even carcharodontosaurus his behavior and his enviorment proves that
""Dinosaur George" hosted the crap pseudodocumentary that is Jurassic Fight Club...Do I need to state how bad it is?
There are a lot more reliable researchers/palaeontologists than him...even Jack Horner is more reliable than him..."
I know that you are Jack Horner believer you've answered all the things with this. Your credibility is low than 5%.... Jurassic Fight Club was proved with evidence... and fossils.... hater.... just because George Blasing doesn't think that you... you call a unreliable source.... shame on you... that guy know million of things more than Horner just because Horner was in Hollywood...

"The JP3 Spino has pretty big forelimbs and a 6 foot long head that's about twice as wide as MSNM V4047's head though...

Is Spino always twice as big? We don't know, I don't think it's likely. The life size model in Italy, which is supposed to be the most accurate one, according to grey, is 15.8 meters long. You underestimate rex size anyways. A 6000 kg rex is a small individual. 9500 kg Sue has a torso too long, but it is NOT a fat sausage. You pull out the same argument against every new guy around here, one spino specimen against your "average" T. rex, which is biased to begin with. "

@broleyupfusion, MysteryMeat shut your mouth with evidence....

and of course a 9.5 tons was not a fat sausage... that's a illitarate thing... please... they give you proves and reseach... If you don't wanna believe it.... that´s not my problem live in your fantasy world....
12 vs 9.5 tons but the 9.5 tons animal has a lot of advantages than the spinosaurus (including more aggresive..... his enviroment proves that) ... and I don't see any support that give to Spino any advantage besides it's sail, arms (not so stronger only to rip fish and smaller preys) because it's snout a lot weaker than T-rex ir more a disadvantage than an advantage.... (sail gives spino the height advantage of course a little advantage too of his large body) if the battle was for food or any prey or territory or baby kids.... Spinosaurus would fall.... and there's support that gives me the right.... don't sell smoke please...
Edited by Superiron21, Jan 27 2013, 07:02 AM.
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MysteryMeat
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Having some trouble understanding your post. You telling me to shush or other guys?
Illitarate is not a word, do you mean literal or illiterate? Either way it doesn't make sense to me.
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Maelstrom
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Superiron, do you know what illiterate means?
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Superiron21
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MysteryMeat
Jan 27 2013, 06:42 AM
Having some trouble understanding your post. You telling me to shush or other guys?
Illitarate is not a word, do you mean literal or illiterate? Either way it doesn't make sense to me.
yeah i´m refering that you shut broley's mouth... sorry if I couldn't express well
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Jinfengopteryx
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Superiron21
Jan 27 2013, 05:55 AM
Jurassic Fight Club was proved with evidence... and fossils....

Actually, JFC allowed itself a large space for theories. Many things have absolutely no basis. There is no evidenceto support that Raptors used rapid hand movements, let alone killing something T-rex sized. Also, their T-rex chicken looked like exact miniatures of their mother. Utahraptor's skull also looked like a lizard skull. Not to mention their Brygmophyseter vs Megalodon episode. They claimed Brygmophyseter to be 12m long, but I don't know any evidence for it.
Also, the main purpose of this show was entertainment. I won't call it a serious ment documentary.
But that's not the sense of this debate. I think we are rather reffering to these ask Dinosaur George videos, because I think in one episode he said in one episode Carcharodontosaurus would likely win against Spinosaurus. Well, that's his opinion and I respect it, but he is not the only authority who has an opinion about this battle:
http://dml.cmnh.org/2005Apr/msg00348.html
Jaime A. Headden believes Spinosaurus was capable of fending off animals like Carcharodontosaurus, if Carcharodontosaurus had problems, Tyrannosaurus maybe too (note that this was written some months before the 16-18m estimate for Spinosaurus was made, so he was maybe reffering to a 15m long Spinosaurus. Also, Greg Paul stated Spinosaurus to be the prehistoric equivalent of a Grizzly Bear. He wrote it in his book "Predatory Dinosaurs of the World.".)
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Superiron21
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Superiron21
Jan 27 2013, 05:55 AM
MightyMaus
Jan 26 2013, 11:14 AM
Superiron21
Jan 26 2013, 08:59 AM
MightyMaus
Jan 26 2013, 07:43 AM
Here's how I see this fight going down. The Spinosaurus would approach the rex and try to intimidate it, if that failed and the rex attacked, the Spinosaurus would most likely have the advantage due to it's greater reach and size. Due to its reach advantage it would likely get the first bite in. I can't imagine a Tyrannosaurus escaping a ~2 ton bite from a 1.75-1.95 meter skull to the neck without SEVERE damage, if not outright death. The huge arms and size of the Spinosaurus would also help with controlling the rex. If the rex managed to survive the first bite, it may catch an arm and crush it. After that the Spino would likely knock the weakend rex over and finish it off.

IMO Tyrannosaurus would not have been able to easily engage the neck of a Spinosaurus, due to the spinosaurs large height and size advantage, not to mention the large and powerful arms.


Spinosaurus 90/10
your explanation is a lot like jp3... false...if Spino could bite T-rex (i doub it) is not the bite force enough to even penetrate its skin.... then the arms are a great deal but they´re not agile... the movement is like up and down... in the other hand if T-rex catch Spino bye there's no second chance....
Don't be an idiot...Tyrannosaurus wasn't made of steel, a Spinosaurs bite would have done a hell of a lot more than penetrated the skin. And please refrain from posting 8 times in a row, it is frowned upon.

@MightyMaus
oh right defendig himself with insults... about a pathetic and illiteral person... I've never said that was made of steel.... according TO REAL DATA Spinosaurus bite force could never do real damage to T.rex (I was refering to that Spino could not penetrate to much deep. but of course can do damage but not deadly)... his "huge arms" are not WWE agility... large size does't mean tall.... Spinosaurus was larger but not as taller as here is represented.... conclusion T-rex could bite his neck and crush it... Sorry for the mistakes of posting I´m new here....

@broleyupfusion Your arguments are pathetic...
"Do I need to make a size comparison to embarass you? Spinosaurus was taller than Tyrannosaurus, AT HIP HEIGHT."
I agree tha Spino is taller but not the size that here most of lovers saying
"Sail? It's more likely a muscular ridge."
I don't see that is a muscular... most of the paleontologist think that the sail was for thermoregulation.... and the sail is more fragile than strong....
"Spinosaurus needed stronger muscles to carry itself, let alone move. And Spinosaurus needed to take on Bahariasaurus, Sauroniops, and Carcharodontosaurus."
his composition is weaker than most other theropods.... you're of those fools that think Spinosaurus could carry his body with his arms? don't be fool Spinosaurus is not able to take even carcharodontosaurus his behavior and his enviorment proves that....
""Dinosaur George" hosted the crap pseudodocumentary that is Jurassic Fight Club...Do I need to state how bad it is?
There are a lot more reliable researchers/palaeontologists than him...even Jack Horner is more reliable than him..."
I know that you are Jack Horner believer you've answered all the things with this. Your credibility is low than 5%.... Jurassic Fight Club was more for fighting and to enterteain but most of them were proved with evidence... and fossils....eventhought it was in base of theories according research of fossils... hater.... I´ve stated how many things Blasing did did you paid attention? JFC is not the only thing he made.... Blasin just because George Blasing doesn't think that you... you call a unreliable source?.... shame on you... that guy know million of things more than Horner just because Horner was in Hollywood... doesn't mean he's better (Horner's theories... most of them were debunked)

"The JP3 Spino has pretty big forelimbs and a 6 foot long head that's about twice as wide as MSNM V4047's head though...

Is Spino always twice as big? We don't know, I don't think it's likely. The life size model in Italy, which is supposed to be the most accurate one, according to grey, is 15.8 meters long. You underestimate rex size anyways. A 6000 kg rex is a small individual. 9500 kg Sue has a torso too long, but it is NOT a fat sausage. You pull out the same argument against every new guy around here, one spino specimen against your "average" T. rex, which is biased to begin with. "

@broleyupfusion, MysteryMeat shut your mouth with evidence....

and of course a 9.5 tons was not a fat sausage... that's a illitarate's thought... please... they give you proves and reseach... If you don't wanna believe it.... that´s not my problem live in your fantasy world.... I´m still waiting for your reference of your 12 tons spino... cause it's morphology (not counting it's sail is not robuster than T-rex)...and even if it was 12 tons how can manage a T-rex or even another theropod... his arms and snout(according to it's trait) are not that strong... or how can spino defeat rex pushing and pushing... I don't think so...
12 vs 9.5 tons but the 9.5 tons animal has a lot of advantages than the spinosaurus (including more aggresive..... his enviroment proves that) ... and I don't see any support that give to Spino any advantage besides it's sail, arms (not so stronger only to rip fish and smaller preys) because it's snout a lot weaker than T-rex ir more a disadvantage than an advantage.... (sail gives spino the height advantage of course a little advantage too of his large body) if the battle was for food or any prey or territory or baby kids.... Spinosaurus would fall.... and there's support that gives me the right.... don't sell smoke please...
Edited by Superiron21, Jan 27 2013, 07:22 AM.
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Superiron21
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Jinfengopteryx
Jan 27 2013, 07:04 AM
Superiron21
Jan 27 2013, 05:55 AM
Jurassic Fight Club was proved with evidence... and fossils....

Actually, JFC allowed itself a large space for theories. Many things have absolutely no basis. There is no evidenceto support that Raptors used rapid hand movements, let alone killing something T-rex sized. Also, their T-rex chicken looked like exact miniatures of their mother. Utahraptor's skull also looked like a lizard skull. Not to mention their Brygmophyseter vs Megalodon episode. They claimed Brygmophyseter to be 12m long, but I don't know any evidence for it.
Also, the main purpose of this show was entertainment. I won't call it a serious ment documentary.
But that's not the sense of this debate. I think we are rather reffering to these ask Dinosaur George videos, because I think in one episode he said in one episode Carcharodontosaurus would likely win against Spinosaurus. Well, that's his opinion and I respect it, but he is not the only authority who has an opinion about this battle:
http://dml.cmnh.org/2005Apr/msg00348.html
Jaime A. Headden believes Spinosaurus was capable of fending off animals like Carcharodontosaurus, if Carcharodontosaurus had problems, Tyrannosaurus maybe too (note that this was written some months before the 16-18m estimate for Spinosaurus was made, so he was maybe reffering to a 15m long Spinosaurus. Also, Greg Paul stated Spinosaurus to be the prehistoric equivalent of a Grizzly Bear. He wrote it in his book "Predatory Dinosaurs of the World.".)
That's another point of view... about JFC yes those are many theories but based on fossils... I didn't agree in most of the episodes but T-rex traits were excellent developed and those had been proved.....
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blaze
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JFC was a POS, right there among the most horribly stereotyped and dumb dinosaur "documentaries" ever made, I'm someone that can shut its brain and enjoy dumb movies/shows but JFC was too much, the only thing based on fossils were the basic shape of the dinosaurs (I say basic because most of the models were bad) and nothing more, those weren't theories, a theory comes to being from a heavily tested hypothesis which is a very educated guess, what was shown in JFC never reaches such level of research and looked like nothing else than the producers coming up with "cool" ideas for people that have no previous knowledge of this animals (like those who made the show).

Never use that show as evidence for anything, in fact, never take what a dinosaur documentary says at face value, none of them are perfect and most take lots of "creative liberties" but those that have been coming from the Discovery channel as of late are pure entertainment with little science behind them.
Edited by blaze, Jan 27 2013, 11:32 AM.
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MightyMaus
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blaze
Jan 27 2013, 11:31 AM
JFC was a POS, right there among the most horribly stereotyped and dumb dinosaur "documentaries" ever made, I'm someone that can shut its brain and enjoy dumb movies/shows but JFC was too much, the only thing based on fossils were the basic shape of the dinosaurs (I say basic because most of the models were bad) and nothing more, those weren't theories, a theory comes to being from a heavily tested hypothesis which is a very educated guess, what was shown in JFC never reaches such level of research and looked like nothing else than the producers coming up with "cool" ideas for people that have no previous knowledge of this animals (like those who made the show).

Never use that show as evidence for anything, in fact, never take what a dinosaur documentary says at face value, none of them are perfect and most take lots of "creative liberties" but those that have been coming from the Discovery channel as of late are pure entertainment with little science behind them.
I would say it was better than Clash of the Dinos in terms of realism. But in reference to this thread. If we assume Spinosaurus had proportions that are similar to its closest relatives. It was ~6 tons heavier than rex, 3.5 feet taller at the hips, and ~18 feet longer. The size and strength advantage is more enough to overcome the disadvantage Spinosaurus's proportionally weaker weapons.


I would like to state that Spinosaurus's only disadvantages in this fight are bite force and agility. Every single other aspect of the fight is in Spinosaurus's favor.
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Grey
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Jinfengopteryx
Jan 27 2013, 07:04 AM
Not to mention their Brygmophyseter vs Megalodon episode. They claimed Brygmophyseter to be 12m long, but I don't know any evidence for it.
The giant Brygmophyseter in the show was based on the Lompoc physeteroid, an unamed yet, to my knowledge, sperm whale, which was mentioned in the information Livyatan description. If I'm not wrong it could be a species of Scaldicetus.

So even though the real Brygmophyseter wasn't 12 m, this animal actually existed, more like the Jurassic Park velociraptors which are in fact the American Deinonychus.
I suppose they wanted to introduce a big adversary for the meg in the show, and as Livyatan was not yet revealed, they used that californian sperm whales, and depicted it as the more known japanese Brygmophyseter.
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SpinoInWonderland
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Superiron21
Jan 27 2013, 05:55 AM
"Sail? It's more likely a muscular ridge."
I don't see that is a muscular... most of the paleontologist think that the sail was for thermoregulation.... and the sail is more fragile than strong....
No they don't, the sail thing actually came from nowhere, Stromer actually suggested a fatty hump...

From now on, I'm just gonna ignore you, I can't even have a single discussion with you that doesn't show your bias...
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Godzillasaurus
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MightyMaus
Jan 27 2013, 11:52 AM
I would like to state that Spinosaurus's only disadvantages in this fight are bite force and agility. Every single other aspect of the fight is in Spinosaurus's favor.
Although spinosaurus had a disadvantage in the realm of bite forces, it actually had a stronger bite than what we have previously thought. The bite of a spinosaurus has recently been estimated at around 2 to 3 tons.
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MysteryMeat
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blaze
Jan 27 2013, 11:31 AM
JFC was a POS, right there among the most horribly stereotyped and dumb dinosaur "documentaries" ever made, I'm someone that can shut its brain and enjoy dumb movies/shows but JFC was too much, the only thing based on fossils were the basic shape of the dinosaurs (I say basic because most of the models were bad) and nothing more, those weren't theories, a theory comes to being from a heavily tested hypothesis which is a very educated guess, what was shown in JFC never reaches such level of research and looked like nothing else than the producers coming up with "cool" ideas for people that have no previous knowledge of this animals (like those who made the show).

Never use that show as evidence for anything, in fact, never take what a dinosaur documentary says at face value, none of them are perfect and most take lots of "creative liberties" but those that have been coming from the Discovery channel as of late are pure entertainment with little science behind them.
I agree. JFC's premise doesn't appeal to me much.
Planet Dinosaur is the best out there IMO, I wish it had the graphics from Dinosaur Revolution.
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SpinoInWonderland
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MysteryMeat
Jan 27 2013, 05:23 PM
blaze
Jan 27 2013, 11:31 AM
JFC was a POS, right there among the most horribly stereotyped and dumb dinosaur "documentaries" ever made, I'm someone that can shut its brain and enjoy dumb movies/shows but JFC was too much, the only thing based on fossils were the basic shape of the dinosaurs (I say basic because most of the models were bad) and nothing more, those weren't theories, a theory comes to being from a heavily tested hypothesis which is a very educated guess, what was shown in JFC never reaches such level of research and looked like nothing else than the producers coming up with "cool" ideas for people that have no previous knowledge of this animals (like those who made the show).

Never use that show as evidence for anything, in fact, never take what a dinosaur documentary says at face value, none of them are perfect and most take lots of "creative liberties" but those that have been coming from the Discovery channel as of late are pure entertainment with little science behind them.
I agree. JFC's premise doesn't appeal to me much.
Planet Dinosaur is the best out there IMO, I wish it had the graphics from Dinosaur Revolution.
Dinosaur Revolution is also one of the best, it features many non-mainstream dinosaurs, and depicts sauropods as the truly powerful creatures that they are...
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