Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Carnivora. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,264 Views)
Wolf Eagle
Member Avatar
M E G A P H Y S E T E R
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

Posted Image

Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

Posted Image
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Replies:
theropod
Member Avatar
palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Godzillaman
Jan 28 2013, 03:17 AM
Maelstrom
Jan 28 2013, 03:10 AM
MightyMaus
Jan 28 2013, 03:09 AM
Don't forget that this is only 1/2 of Spinosaurus's skull, and it's pretty far in the background! Here is a very rough idea of the whole skull.

Posted Image
Either way T.rex's skull is much more impressive.
But that doesn't make spinosaurus a wimpy sardine eater. The jaws of spinosaurus may be thin in comparison to most large theropods, but it wasn't defenseless.
I think none of the non-fanboys/non-haters around would suggest that, in fact it is out of question that spinosaurus was dangerous.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Superiron21
Autotrophic Organism
[ *  * ]
Maelstrom
Jan 28 2013, 03:05 AM
Superiron21
Jan 28 2013, 03:02 AM
According to most of his posts he always try in every single fight to underrated t-rex... even when is impossible.... having an opinion is one thing..... but this is totally different.... but I don't want to argue with him... let's change the route to the main topic...
Ok then, back to topic. I think T.rex would win against lower estimates for Spinosaurus because of better weaponry, but loses against Spino's higher estimates due to huge size advantage.
I totally respect your point of view... Althought I'd think T-rex can win against any Spino....
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Maelstrom
Member Avatar
Autotrophic Organism
[ *  * ]
Superiron21
Jan 28 2013, 03:26 AM
I totally respect your point of view... Althought I'd think T-rex can win against any Spino....
Ok then, I respect your opinion, lets agree to disagree.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Carnosaur Rex
Unicellular Organism
[ * ]
I know this is off-topic but can someone tell me why I can't send Private Message? You do not have permission to send a message.
Error Code: 18039:6046730
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Maelstrom
Member Avatar
Autotrophic Organism
[ *  * ]
Carnosaur Rex
Jan 28 2013, 03:47 AM
I know this is off-topic but can someone tell me why I can't send Private Message? You do not have permission to send a message.
Error Code: 18039:6046730
I got that error when I tried to pm without logging in. Were you logged in?
Edited by Maelstrom, Jan 28 2013, 04:05 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
blaze
Carnivore
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 27 2013, 05:36 PM
MysteryMeat
Jan 27 2013, 05:23 PM
blaze
Jan 27 2013, 11:31 AM
JFC was a POS, right there among the most horribly stereotyped and dumb dinosaur "documentaries" ever made, I'm someone that can shut its brain and enjoy dumb movies/shows but JFC was too much, the only thing based on fossils were the basic shape of the dinosaurs (I say basic because most of the models were bad) and nothing more, those weren't theories, a theory comes to being from a heavily tested hypothesis which is a very educated guess, what was shown in JFC never reaches such level of research and looked like nothing else than the producers coming up with "cool" ideas for people that have no previous knowledge of this animals (like those who made the show).

Never use that show as evidence for anything, in fact, never take what a dinosaur documentary says at face value, none of them are perfect and most take lots of "creative liberties" but those that have been coming from the Discovery channel as of late are pure entertainment with little science behind them.
I agree. JFC's premise doesn't appeal to me much.
Planet Dinosaur is the best out there IMO, I wish it had the graphics from Dinosaur Revolution.
Dinosaur Revolution is also one of the best, it features many non-mainstream dinosaurs, and depicts sauropods as the truly powerful creatures that they are...
I agree with MysteryMeat about Planet Dinosaur and I also share the sentiment that it should of had Dinosaur Revolution graphics, which I think is the best looking dinosaur documentary right now, but that's it, the stories mmm, it is not as anthropomorphic as say, Lion King or Dinosaurs but they don't really act like animals, and sometimes they're too dumb to live (Guanlong segment), as a documentary it doesn't work, but as a "dinosaur movie" it's good, specially because of the quality of the CGI.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Carnosaur Rex
Unicellular Organism
[ * ]
Maelstrom
Jan 28 2013, 04:02 AM
Carnosaur Rex
Jan 28 2013, 03:47 AM
I know this is off-topic but can someone tell me why I can't send Private Message? You do not have permission to send a message.
Error Code: 18039:6046730
I got that error when I tried to pm without logging in. Were you logged in?
yeah I´m logged in, then what's the prob?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
theropod
Member Avatar
palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
It was disabled, I cannot send them either and I think nobody here can.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jinfengopteryx
Member Avatar
Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
You have to use the email function (above the PM buttom).
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Carnosaur Rex
Unicellular Organism
[ * ]
@theropod and Jinfengopteryx thanks for your answer, but they're not going to enable again?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jinfengopteryx
Member Avatar
Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
They don't do it, because it was abused for animal cruality.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
MysteryMeat
Herbivore
[ *  *  *  * ]
Grey
Jan 27 2013, 07:14 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 27 2013, 06:48 PM
Grey
Jan 27 2013, 06:45 PM
Cau seems quite related to Dal Sasso and his current works on Spino, I wouldn't reject his rigorous approach...just like the initial estimates of 16-17 m.

The problem once again is that I feel a great lack of true objectivity. Personnally, I want the truth, not my favorite, I love both, I was fanboy of both at different age when younger...
Verdugo claims that the 14.4-meter estimates debunked the 16-18 meter ones...

He basically claims Cau's estimates as solid proven fact while saying that all other estimates are debunked...

Surely even you would have to disagree with that...
Well, Cau did not really debunk it but he's one of the most rigorous and rational modern researcher. His points are valid and as he's related to Dal Sasso, who's working on the new material from the Kem Kem, I'm somewhat confident in the man.

I'd like Spinosaurus at a 18 m robust piscivore, but I, and I feel real spinosaurids experts, expect real corresponding material.


Verdugo, yeah that was from Therrien et al. 2005. I couldn't read it yet, but I remember to have read of him that spinosaurids had exceptionnally fast, snapping jaws but not powerful at all.
However this is a different work, not related to those of Sakamoto.

I strongly believed that Spinosaurus would have the second bite force among giants theropods, due to its very dense skull, but in the light of these works and words, I reastically place carcharodontosaurids over in the biting department. Their skulls have clearly large space for jaws muscles.
If that life size model in Italy is to represent the latest unpublished studies, like you suggested, they seem to think Spinosaurus is about 15.8 meters long with a long tail and very short hind legs.


Then 1.94-2meter skull is not reconstructed by any scientist but by members on this forum, probably based on Suchomimus, which is not considered to be the closest relative of Spinosaurus.
I do not agree with that reconstruction because Spinosaurus has super elongated premaxilla and maxilla that is in very different shape than Suchomimus. Irritator and that composite spino skull in private collect also prove that the back have of Spino's skull is shorter and deeper than Suchomimus.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Superiron21
Autotrophic Organism
[ *  * ]
Jinfengopteryx
Jan 28 2013, 05:05 AM
They don't do it, because it was abused for animal cruality.
That's true.....
Edited by Superiron21, Jan 28 2013, 05:14 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Carnosaur Rex
Unicellular Organism
[ * ]
Jinfengopteryx
Jan 28 2013, 05:05 AM
They don't do it, because it was abused for animal cruality.
Well I see that, thanks for answering.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
theropod
Member Avatar
palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
There is no dramatic difference between the posterior crania in Suchomimus and Irritator actually, and I doubt fragillimus´ reconstruction bases on Suchomimus. Basing on suchomimus it gets to ~1,8m, it is not that certain for Irritator as it´s snout is missing but it doesn´t really make a huge difference anyway, Fragillimus simply shows a longer posterior part that he based on a picture of a private spinosaurus skull.
Edited by theropod, Jan 28 2013, 05:54 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
2 users reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Dinosauria Interspecific Conflict · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Find this theme on Forum2Forum.net & ZNR exclusively.