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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,256 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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Replies:
SpinoInWonderland
The madness has come back...
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What Black Ice means is that no definite conclusions can be drawn as of now...
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Godzillasaurus
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brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 31 2013, 12:41 PM
What Black Ice means is that no definite conclusions can be drawn as of now...
You were the one who convinced me that the "sail" of spinosaurus was not really a sail at all...
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SpinoInWonderland
The madness has come back...
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Godzillaman
Jan 31 2013, 12:45 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 31 2013, 12:41 PM
What Black Ice means is that no definite conclusions can be drawn as of now...
You were the one who convinced me that the "sail" of spinosaurus was not really a sail at all...
The sail is the least likely, based on the shape of the bones...

The actual structure is unknown but it's definitely not a skin sail...
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Black Ice
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brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 31 2013, 12:41 PM
What Black Ice means is that no definite conclusions can be drawn as of now...
Yes. Though how can they not even know what the sai.... errmm.... "Thing" was made of? How long has it been since spinosaurus was discovered? ^o)
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Godzillasaurus
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brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 31 2013, 12:47 PM
Godzillaman
Jan 31 2013, 12:45 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 31 2013, 12:41 PM
What Black Ice means is that no definite conclusions can be drawn as of now...
You were the one who convinced me that the "sail" of spinosaurus was not really a sail at all...
The sail is the least likely, based on the shape of the bones...

The actual structure is unknown but it's definitely not a skin sail...
What you were saying earlier is that it was probably a muscular ridge as opposed to a hump or a sail.
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SpinoInWonderland
The madness has come back...
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Godzillaman
Jan 31 2013, 12:51 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 31 2013, 12:47 PM
Godzillaman
Jan 31 2013, 12:45 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 31 2013, 12:41 PM
What Black Ice means is that no definite conclusions can be drawn as of now...
You were the one who convinced me that the "sail" of spinosaurus was not really a sail at all...
The sail is the least likely, based on the shape of the bones...

The actual structure is unknown but it's definitely not a skin sail...
What you were saying earlier is that it was probably a muscular ridge as opposed to a hump or a sail.
I was stating it as the most likely option amongst the three...

Black Ice convinced me that the actual structure is unknown, but still the sail is not likely...
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Godzillasaurus
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brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 31 2013, 12:53 PM
Godzillaman
Jan 31 2013, 12:51 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 31 2013, 12:47 PM
Godzillaman
Jan 31 2013, 12:45 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 31 2013, 12:41 PM
What Black Ice means is that no definite conclusions can be drawn as of now...
You were the one who convinced me that the "sail" of spinosaurus was not really a sail at all...
The sail is the least likely, based on the shape of the bones...

The actual structure is unknown but it's definitely not a skin sail...
What you were saying earlier is that it was probably a muscular ridge as opposed to a hump or a sail.
I was stating it as the most likely option amongst the three...
Of course. But until further evidence proves otherwise, the "sail" of spinosaurus isn't really a sail, nor is it a hump.
Edited by Godzillasaurus, Jan 31 2013, 12:56 PM.
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Black Ice
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Yea either way though I think we all know the fish eater would be the winner of this battle :D

GM- You can't just group the thing on spinos back into either a hump,sail,or ridge, It doesn't work that way.
Edited by Black Ice, Jan 31 2013, 12:56 PM.
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Godzillasaurus
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Black Ice
Jan 31 2013, 12:55 PM
GM- You can't just group the thing on spinos back into either a hump,sail,or ridge, It doesn't work that way.
But it is most likely a muscular ridge out of the three.
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Black Ice
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Godzillaman
Jan 31 2013, 12:58 PM
Black Ice
Jan 31 2013, 12:55 PM
GM- You can't just group the thing on spinos back into either a hump,sail,or ridge, It doesn't work that way.
But it is most likely a muscular ridge out of the three.
On what basis? You keep repeating the same thing. I just CLEARLY explained the whole neural spine deal here and you keep saying it's a ridge most likely?
Edited by Black Ice, Jan 31 2013, 01:13 PM.
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Godzillasaurus
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Black Ice
Jan 31 2013, 01:11 PM
Godzillaman
Jan 31 2013, 12:58 PM
Black Ice
Jan 31 2013, 12:55 PM
GM- You can't just group the thing on spinos back into either a hump,sail,or ridge, It doesn't work that way.
But it is most likely a muscular ridge out of the three.
On what basis? You keep repeating the same thing. I just CLEARLY explained the whole neural spine deal here and you keep saying it's a ridge most likely?
Broly was the one who convinced me of that. Ask him, not me.
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MightyMaus
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Black Ice
Jan 31 2013, 01:11 PM
Godzillaman
Jan 31 2013, 12:58 PM
Black Ice
Jan 31 2013, 12:55 PM
GM- You can't just group the thing on spinos back into either a hump,sail,or ridge, It doesn't work that way.
But it is most likely a muscular ridge out of the three.
On what basis? You keep repeating the same thing. I just CLEARLY explained the whole neural spine deal here and you keep saying it's a ridge most likely?
What do you propose as a better alternative???

IMO the structure is a thin fleshy ridge, that transitions to a thick sail at the top. Roughly 1.5 times as wide as the Planet Dinosaur reconstruction.
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SpinoInWonderland
The madness has come back...
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Godzillaman
Jan 31 2013, 01:19 PM
Black Ice
Jan 31 2013, 01:11 PM
Godzillaman
Jan 31 2013, 12:58 PM
Black Ice
Jan 31 2013, 12:55 PM
GM- You can't just group the thing on spinos back into either a hump,sail,or ridge, It doesn't work that way.
But it is most likely a muscular ridge out of the three.
On what basis? You keep repeating the same thing. I just CLEARLY explained the whole neural spine deal here and you keep saying it's a ridge most likely?
Broly was the one who convinced me of that. Ask him, not me.
It seemed the most likely, but no definite conclusion can be drawn. It's now a matter of preference, but a sail is not likely...

I and Black Ice had a debate about it and we came to the conclusion of it being an unknown structure, but that being said, some structure suggestions are more likely than others...
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Black Ice
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MightyMaus
Jan 31 2013, 01:19 PM
Black Ice
Jan 31 2013, 01:11 PM
Godzillaman
Jan 31 2013, 12:58 PM
Black Ice
Jan 31 2013, 12:55 PM
GM- You can't just group the thing on spinos back into either a hump,sail,or ridge, It doesn't work that way.
But it is most likely a muscular ridge out of the three.
On what basis? You keep repeating the same thing. I just CLEARLY explained the whole neural spine deal here and you keep saying it's a ridge most likely?
What do you propose as a better alternative???

IMO the structure is a thin fleshy ridge, that transitions to a thick sail at the top. Roughly 1.5 times as wide as the Planet Dinosaur reconstruction.
Have you seen the spines? They aren't thick at the front. If spino had a muscled ridge, The bones would bend, however a 15t animal doesn't need extra strength to yank a 2t fish out the water. If you read from page 120 on, I explained all of this very clearly.

GM- If you take the time to read brolys previous posts he CLEAERLY agrees with what I said on it not being certain it was a ridge.

EDIT: I keep ninjaing broly lol
Edited by Black Ice, Jan 31 2013, 01:23 PM.
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Godzillasaurus
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brolyeuphyfusion
Jan 31 2013, 01:21 PM
Godzillaman
Jan 31 2013, 01:19 PM
Black Ice
Jan 31 2013, 01:11 PM
Godzillaman
Jan 31 2013, 12:58 PM
Black Ice
Jan 31 2013, 12:55 PM
GM- You can't just group the thing on spinos back into either a hump,sail,or ridge, It doesn't work that way.
But it is most likely a muscular ridge out of the three.
On what basis? You keep repeating the same thing. I just CLEARLY explained the whole neural spine deal here and you keep saying it's a ridge most likely?
Broly was the one who convinced me of that. Ask him, not me.
It seemed the most likely, but no definite conclusion can be drawn. It's now a matter of preference, but a sail is not likely...

I and Black Ice had a debate about it and we came to the conclusion of it being an unknown structure, but that being said, some structure suggestions are more likely than others...
That is what is rather confusing about this debate. There are a few possibilities as to what the spinal structure could support, but it is all about one thing or another "not being a conclusive theory".
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