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| Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,244 Views) | |
| Wolf Eagle | Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM Post #1 |
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M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() Spinosaurus aegyptiacus Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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| Bandog | Feb 9 2013, 07:26 PM Post #2056 |
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Everything else is just a dog.
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I doubt any multi ton theropod will get past another's head and neck to reach the flanks. I am yet to see a theropod with the speed and agility to outmanouvre another like that. Do you think a carnosaur would cause more damage to the flanks than the neck? |
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| theropod | Feb 9 2013, 07:30 PM Post #2057 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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It actually is, but it has proportionally logner jaws, resulting in a larger gape. It is the angle that we have to loook at. I think broly is really underrating the biting capabilities of crushers with relatively small gape, but as far as I know modern animals that mainly kill with their bite force usually target the skull, neck or limbs. I haf seldom seen crocodiles trying to bite a wilderbeests body, and I don't think they actually can do that. |
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| Jinfengopteryx | Feb 9 2013, 08:33 PM Post #2058 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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Do you have any proof for that? If anything, it is the other way around, because crocodiles have no serrated teeth. P.S. That's an alligator.
I'm positive about that, but I just wanted to show that being a bone crusher, does not equal having weak muscles for jaw opening. According to the logic used here, crocodiles and alligators shouldn't be able to open their jaws wider than that. However, other bone crushers neither have pathethic gapes: ![]() I realise that gape is without a doubt an advantage in favour of Spinosaurus and it is an advantage, one of the advantages (not the major, the major one is of course size, tough it has other advantages aswell) what makes me think Spinosaurus wins this in at least half of the battles (or more, that's because I've voted for Spinosaurus), but Tyrannosaurus gape is not as bad as it handicaps it. |
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| theropod | Feb 9 2013, 09:21 PM Post #2059 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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just to give an example fo the difference we are talking about: ![]() based on this: Don't tell me this is from wikimedia, it is, but it is a featured picture with good sources. It's not so much that Tyrannosaurus had a small gape, it's rather than animals adapted for large gapes had exceptionally large ones. Still, Tyrannsoaurus would have problems biting other large theropods flanks. I'm not sure about the gape of spinosaurus tough. it certainly didn't have the adaptions for a wide gape that Allosaurus had (which after all had an antarticular, that is not known from any other animal, and an inwards-turned joint). We have to differentiate, because a weaker bite force can be caused by many factors. In spinosaurus, it is not necessarily an inferior leverage (that would allow a wider gape), it is rather the very long jaw (=not particularly resistant to stress+bad mechanical advantage at the jaws tip) and the reduced muscle size (there simply isn't as much space for musculature as in T. rex). I could imagine Spinosaurus in turn had a rather good leverage in order to handle it's struggling prey, hence a small gape angle, but still probably a wider gape than T. rex due to it's longer jaws. By no means we are talking about a similar difference to Allosaurus-T. rex here. Edited by theropod, Feb 9 2013, 09:21 PM.
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| Godzillasaurus | Feb 10 2013, 12:45 AM Post #2060 |
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Reptile King
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That doesn't really count as better weaponry. Different teeth are designed to cope with different challenges and accomplish different things. Spinosaurus had teeth that were non-serrated, but they were like large spikes, capable of creating deadly puncture wounds in the hide of a large fish. Trust me, tyrannosaurus does not have better weaponry. |
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| Godzillasaurus | Feb 10 2013, 12:52 AM Post #2061 |
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Reptile King
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They can do so to a zebra: About 30 seconds into the video, you see a Nile crocodile biting directly into the zebra's lateral area. They are more then capable of such a task. |
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| Superiron21 | Feb 10 2013, 01:56 AM Post #2062 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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@theropod Agility is good advantage and T.rex has it.... If Spino has the strenght that you claim( which I don't think is that much) I don't see in which aspects can Spino finish T.rex with it besides it's hands (I see them really dangerous but not so deadly) But on the other hand I do see at least 3 advantages that can give the victory to him as agility, bite, aggressiveness (that doesn't mean Size need to be equal to put that in as an advantage). Again Spino according to it's size is not robuster and in consequence stronger than T.rex (neck, jaws, bones)... Size intimidation for me is the best advantage of Spino but If T.rex don´t move back( if the fight was for food, territory, ect...) Spino can't handle so much the T.rex only with it's size... To the haters of T.rex who trie to understimate their weapons.. and trying to say that it's bite and it's jaws are not strong... I laugh of your stupid and pathetic arguments with no proves, research and with facts maked up by yoursfelves... sorry but your attempts are not gonna succeed... leave your hate appart and try to MAKE REAL arguments.... trolls...... Edited by Superiron21, Feb 10 2013, 02:04 AM.
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| theropod | Feb 10 2013, 02:43 AM Post #2063 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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Of course it has the agility, but Tyrant and others have shown that agility is not an advantage that can be used to win agaisnt far larger opponents. agility would be helpful, if you could actually profit from it by reaching an area that is vulnerable to your bite. However T. rex is made for frontal combat, outflanking spinosaurus wouldn't be helpful. As most predators that are not specifically adapted for it, it lacks the gape to attack a larger opponents ribcage or abdomen. All it could do is try and bite the legs, but it would have little chance to succeed. The time it would need to lower its head, avoid being kicked or dodged and bite is more than enough time for Spinosaurus to turn around. Why agility if it is of no use for you, if it is better to stay where you are? Spinosaurus is not more robust than T. rex at parity, no, but this isn't parity, and what's more important for strenght than any other factor is muscle mass. As I said, spinosaurus does undoubtedly have the ability to kill T. rex. If it catches it with its arms or jaws, it can push it over. You probably know it is probably that a fall would be deadly for a large theropod like T. rex. Spinosaurus doesn't even need its weaponery fro that, it can use its strenght alone. But it has the weaponery to do it. It has strong arms with huge claws that it could use to hook into and rip apart an opponents throat, and it has capable jaws, that if they couldn't be used to break or injure the spine or pierce blood vessels where at least potent enough to suffocate T. rex, using a throat hold. In absolute terms, T. rex would need a twice more potent bite to win in the damage it can cause with it alone (because spinosaurus is about double the size and durability). At parity it would need to be 4 times more potent. I still think it comfortably wins in the bite department, but not enough to make up for inferior strenght, height, intimidation, reach and arm size. Godzillaman: Could you post a link please? Noscript somehow doesn't allow me to play the video. I don't doubt crocodiles still have the physical capability to do this to a smaller prey item like a zebra. However I don't think T. rex could do so with a significantly larger animal. |
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| dinosaur | Feb 10 2013, 01:06 PM Post #2064 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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T.rex can knock down spino, and make it roll over. Spinosaurus, if it rolls over, it breaks its back and dies, due to the spines which are fused to the vertebra. |
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| Godzillasaurus | Feb 10 2013, 01:39 PM Post #2065 |
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Reptile King
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Here: Crocodile Vs Zebra Edited by Godzillasaurus, Feb 11 2013, 12:53 AM.
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| Deleted User | Feb 10 2013, 02:37 PM Post #2066 |
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Deleted User
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t rex, stronger bite force it could crush spino's neck |
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| SpinoInWonderland | Feb 10 2013, 03:55 PM Post #2067 |
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The madness has come back...
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There's more to a fight than mere bite force, and Spinosaurus won't just stand there and present it's neck. Read through the discussion... |
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| Black Ice | Feb 10 2013, 04:24 PM Post #2068 |
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Drom King
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I hate when people but in just to repeat the same already refuted stuff without reading the threads.... |
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| theropod | Feb 10 2013, 08:36 PM Post #2069 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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thanks, good point. But as you see, the Crocodile in the video is definitely larger than the Zebra, and the ratio between its gape and the zebras girth is not the one we would see in T. rex and Spinosaurus. |
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| Kunfuzzled | Feb 10 2013, 08:48 PM Post #2070 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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Well to be honest this thread is 139 pages long..
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