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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,236 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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mega t.rex the magnificent
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brolyeuphyfusion
Feb 20 2013, 11:56 AM
mega t.rex the magnificent
Feb 20 2013, 09:18 AM
brolyeuphyfusion
Feb 19 2013, 12:02 PM
theropod
Feb 19 2013, 05:14 AM
thatÅ› probably not a particularly large t. rex skull like sue or stan, rather someting closer to the average.
What do you think is the average Tyrannosaurus skull length?
5 feet long
That's the largest one not the average
Oops my bad. I think It's 4 feet
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Monitor X
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Spinosaurus size is far too problematic. It could be as large as some suggest but there are chances it would be smaller than this according to Andrea Cau, world theropod specialist.

And even at 17 m, what would be its built, its tail length ? Some here are too optimistic with that animal's stats, they could be disappointed in the future...

Tyrannosaurus on the other hand is not anymore the largest theropod since a while, but none of the others contenders (Carcha, Giga, Mapu...) really significantly exceeds it.

In fact, on the basis of the femur, Tyrannosaurus appears to be the most muscular and robustly built of all theropods.

The outcome of this match is simply, by a fair viewpoint, not possible to be neutraly solved at this stage. New material of Spinosaurus is under study at now. Some rumors seem to confirm Andrea Cau's suggestions but nothing conclusive at this point.
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theropod
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Muscularity is not necessarily correlated with the femoral circumference, and a 17m spinosaurus might just have the proportions of baryonyx, but a more bulky body due to the neural spines and possibly allometry.
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Jinfengopteryx
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komodo, why can't we work and discuss with what we have yet? Yes, this is problematic, but until the summer, we should just continue our debate as we did before, tough I think there is not a lot to discuss anymore.
Maybe this summer an unanimous winner will be decided.
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Based on femoral circumference, Tyrannosaurus is the most robust of the large theropods according to Cau.

The rest of your quote about Spinosaurus is what I say : speculations at this stage. It was perhaps still slender, or bulkier than Sucho...or it was perhaps not 17 m at all, something the guys on that forum seem to take too much as a freakin fact.

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Jinfengopteryx
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I don't take it as a fact, but either we work with what we have, or this therad is dead until summer.
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theropod
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But as a matter of facts the proportions of its relatives would make it 16-18m long, there Dal Sasso was right. If it was shorter, which is possible but even more speculative, it was bigger headed and likely shorter tailed. another fact is that spinosaurus had far longer spinous processes than any of its relatives, and there is so far no animal with spines even remotely similar which just formed a thin sail.
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Everything is possible but don't favor the higher proposed sizes because of personnal feelings or likings. Cau has proposed a very rational and rigourous explanation in his blog about why nothing is factual about Spino at 17 m, far from it. And it seems it has not received criticism for it. Also, the rumors from the incoming new publication seems to indicate Cau's probably right...but no inference until this.

That's why I would not decide an outcome at now, but I simply critic the enthusiasm and not objective posts I've read in this long thread.
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SpinoInWonderland
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komodo
Mar 3 2013, 07:38 PM
Also, the rumors from the incoming new publication seems to indicate Cau's probably right...
No it doesn't, a 14.4-meter Spinosaurus wouldn't have a 175-cm skull looking at the proportions of relatives.
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SpinoInWonderland
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Even the Milan model was about 15.8 meters long...
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theropod
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komodo
Mar 3 2013, 07:38 PM
Everything is possible but don't favor the higher proposed sizes because of personnal feelings or likings. Cau has proposed a very rational and rigourous explanation in his blog about why nothing is factual about Spino at 17 m, far from it. And it seems it has not received criticism for it. Also, the rumors from the incoming new publication seems to indicate Cau's probably right...but no inference until this.

That's why I would not decide an outcome at now, but I simply critic the enthusiasm and not objective posts I've read in this long thread.
I tought their model was 16m long? That rather confirms Dal Sassos estimates, especially when taking into account animals are usually shorter when alive.
Favouring an estimate because it bases on related animals proportions has nothign to do with personal feelings, it is plainly the more logical thing to assume, regardless of how unsure the estimates are alltogether.
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brolyeuphyfusion
Mar 3 2013, 07:57 PM
komodo
Mar 3 2013, 07:38 PM
Also, the rumors from the incoming new publication seems to indicate Cau's probably right...
No it doesn't, a 14.4-meter Spinosaurus wouldn't have a 175-cm skull looking at the proportions of relatives.
It doesn't ? How do you know that ? Are you in contact with the Italian authors ? I am, I even met them ast year at one occasion. I know what I am talking about.
So you cannot argue with that haughty attitude with me. I am rude with you ? Yes. Since months, I too often read your comments in too numerous websites, spreading total pollution.

The skull length of Spino is unknown, it could be as well 1,5 m judging by the length of the snout.
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theropod
Mar 3 2013, 08:12 PM
komodo
Mar 3 2013, 07:38 PM
Everything is possible but don't favor the higher proposed sizes because of personnal feelings or likings. Cau has proposed a very rational and rigourous explanation in his blog about why nothing is factual about Spino at 17 m, far from it. And it seems it has not received criticism for it. Also, the rumors from the incoming new publication seems to indicate Cau's probably right...but no inference until this.

That's why I would not decide an outcome at now, but I simply critic the enthusiasm and not objective posts I've read in this long thread.
I tought their model was 16m long? That rather confirms Dal Sassos estimates, especially when taking into account animals are usually shorter when alive.
Favouring an estimate because it bases on related animals proportions has nothign to do with personal feelings, it is plainly the more logical thing to assume, regardless of how unsure the estimates are alltogether.
Which model ?

No, the higher end is no more logic than the other. I wouldn't reject both, but Cau totally rejects it, the reasons behind this making sense.

I persist to have read many optimistic opinions in this forum regarding sizes of many famed animals. To me, it sounds liking before logic.
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brolyeuphyfusion
Mar 3 2013, 07:57 PM
komodo
Mar 3 2013, 07:38 PM
Also, the rumors from the incoming new publication seems to indicate Cau's probably right...
No it doesn't, a 14.4-meter Spinosaurus wouldn't have a 175-cm skull looking at the proportions of relatives.
Like I responded above, the skull length of Spino is unknown. Dal sasso gave 1,75 m, recently Cau proposed more likely 1,5 m.
As Giga's paratype and Sue skull have been too downsized, although the latter being complete, there's no reason to acknowledge Spino skull length of 1,75 m as a fact.

I repeat, too optimistic forumers.
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SpinoInWonderland
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komodo
Mar 3 2013, 08:12 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Mar 3 2013, 07:57 PM
komodo
Mar 3 2013, 07:38 PM
Also, the rumors from the incoming new publication seems to indicate Cau's probably right...
No it doesn't, a 14.4-meter Spinosaurus wouldn't have a 175-cm skull looking at the proportions of relatives.
It doesn't ? How do you know that ? Are you in contact with the Italian authors ? I am, I even met them ast year at one occasion. I know what I am talking about.
So you cannot argue with that haughty attitude with me. I am rude with you ? Yes. Since months, I too often read your comments in too numerous websites, spreading total pollution.

The skull length of Spino is unknown, it could be as well 1,5 m judging by the length of the snout.
You met them, really? I am just extremely skeptical of the big-headed Spinosaurus, and your statement of the new publications supporting lower estimates doesn't make much sense. It's not like the whole skeleton has been found.

And how am I spreading total pollution?
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