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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,364 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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Replies:
SpinoInWonderland
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Fragillimus335
Aug 26 2012, 01:08 PM
Hey Broly! I also see myself as a supporter of sauropods and a lone voice against the hordes of Rex fans!
At last, I am not alone! It is beyond me why people would vote for T. rex over a theropod almost twice it's size, it seems that all logic is replaced by bias for most people when it comes to T. rex...
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Verdugo
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brolyeuphyfusion
Aug 28 2012, 03:40 PM
Fragillimus335
Aug 26 2012, 01:08 PM
Hey Broly! I also see myself as a supporter of sauropods and a lone voice against the hordes of Rex fans!
At last, I am not alone! It is beyond me why people would vote for T. rex over a theropod almost twice it's size, it seems that all logic is replaced by bias for most people when it comes to T. rex...
Spino is twice the size of T rex !. Do you know anything about these guys lol
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DinosaurMichael
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Dark allosaurus
Aug 28 2012, 09:51 AM
apexpredator7
Jan 16 2012, 04:22 AM
Drift
Jan 15 2012, 10:44 AM
apexpredator7
Jan 14 2012, 01:38 AM
The size advantage is way too great trex is overrated severely
I think the alleged size difference is what makes the spino overrated IMO
spino overatted :huh: , trex is overated infact the most overated thing EVER so many people dote on it because of it being the top carnivore in their childhood this needs be got over seriosly how can you say spino is overated against a trex???? trex used to be the best predator but now animals have been discovered which are superior
most overrated thing ever? Tigers, lions and pitbulls are more overrated than Tyrannosaurus rex
I agree. Big Cats like Tigers are more overrated than T-Rex. Pitbulls are overrated too. I agree with that as well.
Edited by DinosaurMichael, Aug 29 2012, 12:37 AM.
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theropod
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Verdugo
Aug 28 2012, 11:59 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Aug 28 2012, 03:40 PM
Fragillimus335
Aug 26 2012, 01:08 PM
Hey Broly! I also see myself as a supporter of sauropods and a lone voice against the hordes of Rex fans!
At last, I am not alone! It is beyond me why people would vote for T. rex over a theropod almost twice it's size, it seems that all logic is replaced by bias for most people when it comes to T. rex...
Spino is twice the size of T rex !. Do you know anything about these guys lol
What do you mean? it IS twice the siez!
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Verdugo
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theropod
Aug 29 2012, 12:56 AM
Verdugo
Aug 28 2012, 11:59 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Aug 28 2012, 03:40 PM
Fragillimus335
Aug 26 2012, 01:08 PM
Hey Broly! I also see myself as a supporter of sauropods and a lone voice against the hordes of Rex fans!
At last, I am not alone! It is beyond me why people would vote for T. rex over a theropod almost twice it's size, it seems that all logic is replaced by bias for most people when it comes to T. rex...
Spino is twice the size of T rex !. Do you know anything about these guys lol
What do you mean? it IS twice the siez!
Not really, Spino holotype is only around 14-15m (i'm not really sure about the exact length). Why MSNM V4047 can be very large, but the size estimation is also very varied from 14-18m long and the size estimation can be wrong. Because MSNM V4047 is just a part of a upper jaws, but different Spinosaurus has different proportion. I'll give you an example: UCMP 118742 has bigger maxilla than MOR 008 but it's still a smaller T rex. So the exact size of MSNM V4047 is still unknown. But even if MSNM V4047 is 18m long, it's still not double the weight of T rex. T rex is a far more heavily buit and muscular animal than Spinosaurus, if Spinosaurus is really double the weight of T rex, it must be a 4-legged animal
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Fragillimus335
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The 14-15 meter spino holotype happens to be a sub-adult. Fully grown it would have reached 18+ meters
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Verdugo
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Fragillimus335
Aug 30 2012, 01:32 AM
The 14-15 meter spino holotype happens to be a sub-adult. Fully grown it would have reached 18+ meters
Source please !!! :)
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TheROC
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Verdugo
Aug 29 2012, 03:55 PM
theropod
Aug 29 2012, 12:56 AM
Verdugo
Aug 28 2012, 11:59 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Aug 28 2012, 03:40 PM
Fragillimus335
Aug 26 2012, 01:08 PM
Hey Broly! I also see myself as a supporter of sauropods and a lone voice against the hordes of Rex fans!
At last, I am not alone! It is beyond me why people would vote for T. rex over a theropod almost twice it's size, it seems that all logic is replaced by bias for most people when it comes to T. rex...
Spino is twice the size of T rex !. Do you know anything about these guys lol
What do you mean? it IS twice the siez!
Not really, Spino holotype is only around 14-15m (i'm not really sure about the exact length). Why MSNM V4047 can be very large, but the size estimation is also very varied from 14-18m long and the size estimation can be wrong. Because MSNM V4047 is just a part of a upper jaws, but different Spinosaurus has different proportion. I'll give you an example: UCMP 118742 has bigger maxilla than MOR 008 but it's still a smaller T rex. So the exact size of MSNM V4047 is still unknown. But even if MSNM V4047 is 18m long, it's still not double the weight of T rex. T rex is a far more heavily buit and muscular animal than Spinosaurus, if Spinosaurus is really double the weight of T rex, it must be a 4-legged animal
It would be at least double the weight easily.

Square-Cube-Law.

Weight increases in three dimensions. This is what most people don't seem to realize at first.

Lets just say if a 12 meter T. rex weighs 6 tons, an 18 meter T. rex would weigh ~20.25 tons.

You can even test this by scaling up a smaller tyrannosaurid to t.rex proportions and see that it still works.

For example; A 30 ft, 2.5 ton Daspletosaurus scaled up to 40 feet would weigh 6 tons.

Also the difference in build between a tyrannosaurid and spinosaurid at weight at equal lengths would be perhaps 20% at most. Just compare the weight estimates between tarbosaurus and suchomimus for example.
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Fragillimus335
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Source: von Stromer, E. 1915. Ergebnisse der Forschungreisen Prof. E. Stromers in den Wüsten-Ägyptens. II. Wirbeltier-Reste der Baharîje-Stufe (unterstes Cenoman). 3. Das Original des Theropoden Spinosaurus aegyptiacus nov. gen. et nov. spec.

It is widely known that the holotype was not fully grown.
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Verdugo
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Base on this picture made by Prehistoric Cat (special thanks to Prehistoric Cat), i don't think Spino can be double the weight of T rex. This is a size comparison between a Spinosaurus with a 2m long skull and a T rex with 1,6m long skull. Both are outsized, Spino should only have a skull around 1,75m while T rex's skull should only be 1,5m long. If Hartman's reconstructions are right, it's very unlikely for Spino to be 18m long and 20 tons. Also you should notice Spino's legs, Spino's legs reconstruction of Hartman is based on other Spinosauridae with complete legs bones. If this legs reconstruction is correct, it seems very unlikely for Spino to be a 20 tons heavy weight. Despite being bigger, the Spino in the size comparison chart has shorter and clearly thinner femurs than than those of T rex, the hip region is also smaller. These mean Spino's legs aren't buit to support heavy load like T rex. If Spino is really double the weighs of T rex, it MUST be quadrupedal. But Spino cannot be quadrupedal because it cannot pronate its arms (rotate the forearm so the palm faced the ground) to walk effectively
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Fragillimus335
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Hartman's recon has too large of a skull.
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TheROC
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Spinosaurus isn't oversized in that reconstruction, it's simply given a proportionately larger head than Baryonyx/Suchomimus reconstructions. We do have private specimens of jaws that would be over 2 meters long when hole, for Spinosaurus, from remains Horner has seen/handled. The T.Rex however, is oversized.

This is what the difference between a ~17 meter spinosaurus and sue sized T.rex looks like;

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theropod
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TheROC, I really love that comparison, but could you add "Epanterias" and make Torvosaurus a metre longer to match the largest specimen? and it seems like your T. rex is a bite distorted (lenghtwise).

-as already mentioned, due to the square cube law Spinosaurus would easily be double the weight of T. rex. The differences in bulk between a for spinosaurid standarts bulky animal with a huge crest on it´s back and a tyrannosaur can´t be that great.

-also, prehistoric cat´s comparison is simply biased here. Where exactly is this 1,6m T. rex skull? Nobody has answered that question yet. there are however reports of 2m+ spinosaurus skulls, even tough they are not confirmed. And this spinosaurus has an unproportionally large head. assume it´s skull to be a bit smaller proportionally, and you easily get the 18m figure proposed by Dal Sasso. so keeping in mind that there are rumoured larger specimens for both, and that using confirmed sizs of the few individuals we have Spinosaurus could certainly have reached 18m, I don´t see any reason to assme it to be that small
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TheROC
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I would have added larger jurassic allosaur relatives, but I figured it would be too repetive to use scott hartman's allosaur shape again--its already used once for allosaurus and the modified neoventor.

as for torvosaurus, i could do that, but i'd have to swap places with suchomimus then, which wouldn't be difficult, but I'm lazy at the moment. ; )

not sure what you mean by distortion on the T.rex though? the proportions look off or something? because at the very least the length and hip height are correct.

One thing I need to do is update Giganotosaurus' head. I finished that scale the very same day Hartman updated his profile to show the corrected head for it.
Edited by TheROC, Aug 30 2012, 01:31 PM.
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Verdugo
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TheROC
Aug 30 2012, 03:01 AM
Spinosaurus isn't oversized in that reconstruction, it's simply given a proportionately larger head than Baryonyx/Suchomimus reconstructions. We do have private specimens of jaws that would be over 2 meters long when hole, for Spinosaurus, from remains Horner has seen/handled. The T.Rex however, is oversized.

This is what the difference between a ~17 meter spinosaurus and sue sized T.rex looks like;

Posted Image
There's NO Spino's specimen with a 2m long skull, give me a source claim that

If you think that Spinosaurus has proportionately large head, tell that to Hartman, i didn't make those skeletal reconstruction.

Base on Hartman reconstruction, a 17m long Spino seems to be extremely unlikely.

Spino doesn't buit to support heavy weight, please read my reply carefully
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