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| Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,190 Views) | |
| Wolf Eagle | Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM Post #1 |
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M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() Spinosaurus aegyptiacus Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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| spinosaurus rex | Dec 6 2013, 01:19 PM Post #2866 |
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Carnivore
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it could just as well be those sizes, yet assuming it followed the same proportions as its relatives, you can get something around 17 meters and some 14 tons at the least. 15 can be attainable, but i do agree 16 might be too much. the only way spinosaurus is 15 meters long is if it had a proportionally larger head and a shorter tail, but nothing is denying it. this creature is just to fragmentary to decide just yet. my opinion is a creature of around 17 meters and some 15 tons at the most. |
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| Jinfengopteryx | Dec 6 2013, 10:08 PM Post #2867 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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What "other studies"? 3 t was TheROC's own estimate. |
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| Vobby | Dec 8 2013, 02:15 AM Post #2868 |
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Omnivore
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@Sci Fyena and Spinosaurus rex: I suggest you to read this thread about Spinosaurus (and Tyrannosaurus) size: http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/9879090/12/#new We debated the matter quite a lot, you could find it interesting, it is clearly very relevant for this thread. For example, it seems that a lot of us agreed about Spinosaurus holotype being smaller than Sue (despite this, our opinions differ still a lot, of course ).About the gape thing, it is true that Tyrannosaurus was specialized in taking tough but not particularly big prey, but this is even (much, very much) more true for Spinosaurus. Anyway, I don't think that these two opponents would be so much restricted by jaws gapes: how many canids and hyaenids commonly prey on animals several times their sizes, relying only on their jaws? Animals aren't bronze statues, it is possible to bite them in every place the mouth can sink. I'm quite sure that both the theropods here should have no problems in biting limbs, head, neck, belly and flank of the opponent, but head and neck is what really matters, since theropods fighting style seems to involve a lot of face biting. Ah, this isn't really important, but my personal opinion is that Tyrannosaurus would massacre Spinosaurus, just so you know
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| spinosaurus rex | Dec 8 2013, 03:41 AM Post #2869 |
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Carnivore
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canids and hyaenids don't come even close to 2 or 6 ton bite forces. the restrictions are quite greater when your jaws are that powerful, and how is it that the rules is much more applicant to spinosaurus. tyrannosaurus is the one with the greater restriction due to the far more superior bite force. I just don't see tyrannosaurus gape allowing it to get a lethal bite on spinosaurus flanks. at least not a life threatening one. bellies are very unlikely targets for two fighting theropods, and in my opinion, dinosaurs are pretty close to bronze statues. both can't out maneuver each other, both are rather restricted in some way in terms of biting capabilities. so you could possibly end up with two massive bodies just clashing together. and one happens to be larger then the other this probably won't change your mind, but in my opinion, spinosaurus would have the higher chance of winning( it won't be a massacre )
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| spinosaurus rex | Dec 8 2013, 04:01 AM Post #2870 |
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Carnivore
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also congratulations on your degree.
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| Megalosauroid | Dec 8 2013, 04:27 AM Post #2871 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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The 3 ton bite force claim is a guesstimate that assumes Spinosaurus posessed a relatively stronger bite force than Baryonyx, this seems to be contradicted by the study presented, where they estimated that Spinosaurus performed relatively worse resisting craniolateral and torque forces than its smaller cousins and crocodilians. What matters here is the size, and about 97% of all large animals known from fragmentary remains are overestimated in length and weight. MSMN V4047 might be even the same size of IPHG 1912, since the specmen might be an adult and we do not have a rostrum from this specimen, even Hartman agrees. |
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| spinosaurus rex | Dec 8 2013, 04:33 AM Post #2872 |
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Carnivore
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so , I guess we both agree that we need more bones of spinosaurus to at least get an accurate conclusion of its weight. there is so much guess work coming from both of our opinions |
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| Vobby | Dec 8 2013, 10:40 AM Post #2873 |
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Omnivore
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Thank you!
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| ArachnidKid | Dec 9 2013, 05:48 AM Post #2874 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Agreed |
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| thesporerex | Dec 18 2013, 05:31 AM Post #2875 |
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Kleptoparasite
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KEEP GOING TO 200 PAGES |
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| Sci Fyena | Dec 18 2013, 08:04 AM Post #2876 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Alright, I'll help... time to start a flame war. Dinosorz r stoopid lol. Both T-Rex and spinnosorus r weeklings dat cudn't kil eech uther. Dumbist aminals evurrr hahahahaha...That hurt my soul. Sorry for that. Anyway, please be awesome- respond to that comment until we reach 200. |
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| Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex | Jan 23 2014, 09:58 PM Post #2877 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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I hope i don't annoy anyone by posting here my opinion and ''resurrecting'' this old thread. So, let's go. Tyrannosaurus vs Spinosaurus is a pretty interesting fight to look at because everything is not what it appears. I'm gonna explain my points here and compare these animals before deciding the outcome. First and foremost, the Spinosaurus i'm comparing is 15.6 meters long (MSMN V4047 based on Mr.Hartman's own reconstruction in June 2013) as i don't think a 16+ Spinosaurus is possible. Here's the link to Mr.Hartman's reconstruction: http://www.skeletaldrawing.com/home/super-spinosaurus6282013 Let's start with comparing the size of these animals: ![]() (yea ignore that Carnotaurus) The first thing that we see, is Spinosaurus's huge size. Its bigger than Rexy, of course, but is that really that important? I mean, is size everything? To answer it let's take a look at their weapons and see what do they bring to the fight. In a fight to the death, the most important thing is the ability to kill. In T-Rex's case, he can very easily end Spiny's life with a bite to the neck using his famous huge jaws and bone-crushing teeth. It's in fact an insta-kill weapon that Rexy uses as easy as opening and closing his jaws. Spiny brings some awesome claws to the fight. Its claws can end the T-Rex's life if it hits the throat. A hit somewhere else's gonna hurt, but's not gonna kill. However, what about his jaws? To me Spiny's jaws are not reliable weapons in a fight. The reason i say so is because Spiny has long and narrow jaws with unserrated teeth. In fact its jaws remind me of a gahrial's (or garial (whatever it is)) and can't really tear flesh and cause damage. LionClaws explained the point far better than i can:
Even if Spiny's jaws were strong, (i heard that they have a power of 2 tons) they would be able to kill the rival, whoever he is, and in this case Tyrannosaurus. If Spiny put too much pressure on those, that would up breaking his own skull. http://mundoteropodo.blogspot.co.uk/2009/12/la-verdadera-cara-del-espinosaurio.html So Spiny has claws and Rexy has jaws. But what about their fighting skills? Rexy is a land based carnivore. He hunts prey like Triceratops, Ankylosaurus, Edmontosaurus and (sometimes) Alamosaurus. Being a land based killer is a risky business because the prey animals don't want to be eaten and often they're gonna fight back and have the tools to fight back. They may kick the predator, use horns, use claws use anything to not be eaten. So even if Rexy hunts an Edmontosaurus, he still needs some fighting experience because the Edmontosaur won't just stand there and do nothing. Now about Spiny i once again quote LionClaws's explanation:
The point is, by catching a fish and swallowing him whole and even by throwing him out of the water and tear him apart, you don't learn how to fight. By dodging kicks and horns, you do. The final point is, T-Rex is a large land animal. ''large land animal'' is exactly what Spinosaurus couldn't hunt, because if he could, they why did he go extinct once his swamps went under the sea level? A T-rex is too much for a Spinosaurus to kill because the animal is not designed to kill it. I don't want to underrate Spiny. I'm just saying a big land animal is out of its capacity to kill. But still those claws are saying something: if Spiny scores a lucky hit to the Rex's throat, the Rex goes bye bye. Overall, i give this fight to the death to T-Rex and say he wins 6 out of 10 times. But let me say this: the majority of the time the Spinosaurus would just scare the Rex away, and win the battle before it even begins... Edited by Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex, Jan 23 2014, 10:12 PM.
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| spinosaurus rex | Jan 23 2014, 10:29 PM Post #2878 |
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Carnivore
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i'm sorry, but there are so many incorrections in your post. firstly, size is an advantage, especially at the sizes were talking about. i believe spinosaurus could attain 16 meters ans even 15 meters is big enough to put up a fight with tyrannosaurus. 1. gape. the gape of tyrannosaurus is around 1 meter. literally, the only place were tyrannosaurus could place the 6 ton bite is at the neck. and why are you suggesting spinosaurus was a incapable fighter, he lived in a environment full of predators. even if he avoid competition by being mainly piscovous, i doubt it will effect his ability to defend himself. lastly, you quoted 4 inch teeth. need i have to tell you how wrong is that. |
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| TheMechaBaryonyx789 | Jan 24 2014, 01:50 AM Post #2879 |
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Herbivore
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Spinosaurus would dominate, its a 13 ton Spinosaurus VS an 8 ton Tyrannosaurus. |
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| Canadianwildlife | Jan 24 2014, 02:36 AM Post #2880 |
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Apex Predator
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I think the tyrant lizard king would take this judging by its huge, thick, jaws. The rex has the jaws of an aligator, while the spino has the jaws of a gharial. Although larger, the spino wasn't that much bigger, and the rex seems to have a more powerful build, and seems bulkier for its size. Because of the huge jaws of the trex which are much bigger and stronger than the spino's, and because its teeth are bigger and deadlier, I think the trex takes it. The animals mostly fight with their jaws, and the trex has that major advantage. |
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