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| Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,188 Views) | |
| Wolf Eagle | Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM Post #1 |
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M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() Spinosaurus aegyptiacus Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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| TheMechaBaryonyx789 | Jan 24 2014, 07:06 AM Post #2896 |
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Herbivore
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12-13 tons for Spinosaurus seems more like the average. |
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| TheMechaBaryonyx789 | Jan 24 2014, 07:09 AM Post #2897 |
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Herbivore
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Spinosaurus has powerful jaws as well. Tyrannosaurus' bite won't be very efficient against a larger animal such as Spinosaurus due to Tyrannosaurus' small bite gape. Nobody here mentioned the 7-20 ton estimate for Spinosaurus. Spinosaurus was 11-13 tons in weight, so Spinosaurus automatically has the advantage against Tyrannosaurus. |
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| Canadianwildlife | Jan 24 2014, 07:21 AM Post #2898 |
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Apex Predator
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Seems, that doesn't mean it is. For all we know the two animals could be around the same weight. |
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| Canadianwildlife | Jan 24 2014, 07:26 AM Post #2899 |
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Apex Predator
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Most people voted trex for a reason. The trex may be intimidated, but when they get in to close combat, the trex's larger stronger jaws will do way more damage the the spinos, its gape isn't that small, its more than big enough to do the job. It has a more robust build, and is used to taking on big animals, but the spino is a carnivore, so it is a different story. Has there even been a whole skeleton of a spinosaurous? |
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| TheMechaBaryonyx789 | Jan 24 2014, 07:41 AM Post #2900 |
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Herbivore
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Spinosaurus is far stronger than Tyrannosaurus overall due to its weight advantage. Tyrannosaurus being more robust is NOT an advantage in this case... Also an adult Edmontosaurus survived a bite to the head from an adult Tyrannosaurus so Spinosaurus could easily survive a bite to the neck from Tyrannosaurus. Spinosaurus actually had powerful jaws as well. To add to that, Spinosaurus had extremely powerful and muscular arms and claws. Since Spinosaurus was taller than Tyrannosaurus, Spinosaurus' claws would be very efficient. Being more advanced means nothing here. Technically a chicken is more advanced than a sauropod but a sauropod would crush one in a fight. And finally, Spinosaurus is over 60% larger (Spinosaurus is 13 tons while Tyrannosaurus is 8 tons). This will automatically give Spinosaurus the advantage (which I have started hundreds of times previously). |
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| TheMechaBaryonyx789 | Jan 24 2014, 07:42 AM Post #2901 |
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Herbivore
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Also it's T. rex not trex... |
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| Canadianwildlife | Jan 24 2014, 09:09 AM Post #2902 |
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Apex Predator
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The weights of the animals cannot be proven, as they are just estimates. The spinos jaws aren't that powerful, they are thin, long, and skinny, much weaker than the rexes. The animals jaws matter in the fight, as it is their main weapon, and its what they use to fight. Also, if the trex does have deadly bacteria in its mouth, than that would take somewhat of a toll on the spino. How is the spino going to kill the rex with its weight, by falling on it? They will be fighting with their jaws, and the trex has the better jaws for it. I don't know about the spinos arms, but the rexes jaws seem to be far more powerful and lethal, whilst the spinos jaws were somewhat weak for its size, probably being used more for fishing. Jaws beat claws, and the rex has the better jaws. One bite form the rex, and the fight is over. A spino cannot exert nearly as much pressure in its jaws as a trex can, so the spinos bite won't have nearly as much of an effect. Jurasic park did a terrible job on this. The trex bites down on the spino, but it does nothing, its bite didn't even give the spino a cut, but when the spino bit the rex with its more frail, weaker, and thinner jaws, it snapped its neck, which was absolutely ridiculous. The trex has the better jaws, which are the better weapons of both animals. The spino is stronger? How? Definately not in the jaws, the trex is much stronger in the jaws, and the jaws is what the animals will be fighting with. Being stronger in the body won't matter when you can't use it, if both animals fell down, I doubt they would be able to get up. The jaws will be doing the fighting, and thus, it's the jaws that mostly matter. Being bigger and heavier in this case means you can only throw your weight around a little more, but it can't kill the rex that way, it will have to kill it either with its jaws or claws. Also, not a single whole skeleton has been found for spinosaurous. If I am wrong about that, tell me. If that is the case, then technically, the trex would still remain the king, as what the spino looked like hasn't been proven, if it even existed. All scientists found was a part of the jaw, a fin part, some claws and teeth or whatever and that's it. So, until a whole skeleton is found, we actually have no proof of what the spinosaurous looked like, and thus, the trex still reighs alone. Saying the spino is bigger also can't be proven when all scientists found were a few small bones of the animal, and to completely prove what the animal looks like, we need a whole skeleton, which we have found many of for the trex. So currently, the trex is the undisputed tyrant lizard king, and even if spino did exist, or looked like what people have imagined it to be, I would still back the t-rex. Edited by Canadianwildlife, Jan 24 2014, 09:34 AM.
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| Canadianwildlife | Jan 24 2014, 09:33 AM Post #2903 |
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Apex Predator
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Sorry, I abbreviated it wrong again. |
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| Megalosauroid | Jan 24 2014, 10:11 AM Post #2904 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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Whoa, calm down with your estimates, 6.5 tonnes is really outdated, not even the holotype had such a low weight only smaller adults, and its unfare to compare MSMN V4047 with BHI 3033 or MOR 555 or AMNH 5027, Better using Sue against MSM and its 8,400 kg vs 8,000-11,000 kg, a difference of 37% at max but..... Spinosaurus has chances of larger aswell as smaller sizes, but what history has told us is that conservatives are always the best, and I can say that 14 m for Spinosaurus is a good figure to assume. My Opinion: We must get a better size estimate for MSM and IPHG VIII 1912 before we get conclusions about this fight. At best, if a 14 m Spinosaurus fought with a 12 m Tyrannosaurus (which would be really rare since predators normally avoid each other) Tyrannosaurus would be a very hard rival, if Tyrannosaurus managed to close that powerful jaws on Spinosaurus neck, it would injury it enough to keep it far, if Spinosaurus managed to use the claws it would hurt T.rex badly, both would be injured. My consensus is, If T.rex fought a similar sized or even slightly larger Spinosaurus, Tyrannosaurus would most likely end victorious, it was bulkier and had larger neck and leg muscles. |
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| Vobby | Jan 24 2014, 10:43 AM Post #2905 |
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Omnivore
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(28/06/1914, at Sarajevo, one guy told that) Tyrannosaurus rex specimen "Sue" is the biggest theropod of which we can estimate both its own size and its mass relatively to other theropods. Spinosaurus holotype is very much smaller.
Edited by Vobby, Jan 24 2014, 10:44 AM.
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| Ausar | Jan 24 2014, 10:43 AM Post #2906 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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"Whoa, calm down with your estimates". That came off as a bit patronizing to me for some reason.........it's just me. Even when using Sue, Spinosaurus still had a good weight advantage at max. Edited by Ausar, Jan 26 2014, 07:32 AM.
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| Vobby | Jan 24 2014, 11:18 AM Post #2907 |
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Omnivore
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Where did you find the 1 meter gape? I find it plausible, but I never found such a precise description. Anyway, 1 m is more than enough to chew trough Spinosaurus torso: ![]() I think the gape thing is exaggerated here. Modern lions and tigers can open their mouth at only 60°, and this doesn't exacly stop them from biting buffalos, gaurs, hippos, rhinos and elephants. To have a wide gape is necessary for those theropods with a slicing bite, T. rex doesn't need it, not to fight a similar sized (pardon, smaller) opponent. If anything, is Spinosaurus to be not adapted to bite and kill something that big. |
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| Canadianwildlife | Jan 24 2014, 11:48 AM Post #2908 |
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Apex Predator
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There is actually no proof of what spinosaurous looked like, so putting a spinosaurous into a battle is like putting a fictional character into a fight. Those very few bones could have come from anything, and scientists are just guessing what spinosaurous looked like. Spinosaurous may even be a lot smaller anyway. Until a full skeleton is found, t-rex remains the king. Spinosaurous is a dinosaur of guesswork, and assumptions based off of a few bones, and not a complete skeleton. Spinosaurous shouldn't even exist as a contender. As of right now, it really is a fictional dinosaur. The animal those bones came from really existed, but we have know idea what it looked like,or what it was for that matter, so I see no reason to debate the two when one of them could be anything, or could look much different, so it does not count as a contender. Anyone can find a few bones and guess what the animal looked like, everyone is basing what they think the animal looks like by what scientists have guessed and imagined, so how can it be a contender? We don't know what the spino looked like. Unless I'm mistaken, those very few bones were found in 1912, and have since been lost. People are basically guesing what this thing looks like, and automatically, saying it was bigger than a t-rex.
Edited by Canadianwildlife, Jan 24 2014, 11:53 AM.
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| Ceratodromeus | Jan 24 2014, 12:51 PM Post #2909 |
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Aspiring herpetologist
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i couldn't agree more!! finally some one sees it how i do
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| Ausar | Jan 24 2014, 12:55 PM Post #2910 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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Theropod's not gonna like this. |
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