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| Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,187 Views) | |
| Wolf Eagle | Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM Post #1 |
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M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() Spinosaurus aegyptiacus Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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| spinosaurus rex | Jan 24 2014, 01:22 PM Post #2911 |
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Carnivore
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neither do i |
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| Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex | Jan 24 2014, 03:20 PM Post #2912 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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They did live with predators such as Charcharodontosaurus, yes but they didn't compete. There wasn't any need to do so. Charcha attacked Paralatitan and Spinosaurus attacked Onchopristis. Different hunting grounds. Different game. No need to compete When you hunt fish, you only need to catch it, throw it to the ground and tear it apart, repeat process. When you look at a bear fishing, you don't see the fish fighting back do you?. Large crocs weren't that much of a threat for Spino. He only needs to step on those and game's over. A land based predator like Rexy, even if he doesn't compete with other guys around, he still has to dodge kicks and horns coming at him. He needs to be a fighter because that's the way he makes his living. And why do you think Spinosaurus's jaws were not gahrial-like? Just look at those. They're long and thin. Of course not exactly like those of a gahrial but still much more gahrial-like than croc-like. ![]() I didn;t say they're exactly gahrial jaws. I said they look like a gahrial's. Long and thin. I don't care about size if the skeleton design isn't that of an animal to hunt large things like T-Rex. Spinosaurus relied on fish and became incapable of hunting animals like Rexy. Because if has the fighting skills that you say and could hunt large prey efficiently, then why did he go extinct? He was unable to survive once he was forced to competition with the large land based killer theropods like Charch. Why would T-Rex go down against Spino if the latter couldn't compete with the similar sized Charcha? |
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| spinosaurus rex | Jan 24 2014, 03:34 PM Post #2913 |
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Carnivore
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dude, you got it mixed up. competition is not synonymous with fighting an animal, although sometimes it might lead up to it. and as far as I known, there really isn't a plausible understanding on how spinosaurus died out. but is your scenario is true, spinosaurus would not die out do to competition with fighting carcharodontosaurus. it would be competition between similar food sources. and besides, competition does not play a major role in a interspecific fight. I also notice there are a lot of assumptions in your post. we do have evidence that spinosaurs were indeed more generalist then just pure specialist.( the iguanodon bones found in baryonyx and the irritator tooth logged in the vertebra of a pterosaur) why would spinosaurus be any different. also the fish spinosaurus hunted were no wimpy guppies at all. some could weigh over 2 tons. which takes a considerable amount of dorsiventral strength to achieve. with is in fact what spinosaurus is well capable to do. anyway, I feel a 16 meter spinosaurus would win around 55% of the time Edited by spinosaurus rex, Jan 24 2014, 03:47 PM.
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| TheMechaBaryonyx789 | Jan 24 2014, 05:19 PM Post #2914 |
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Herbivore
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I have already told you that one bite from T. rex would NOT kill Spinosaurus. We have evidence that an Edmontosaurus survived a bite to the head from an adult Tyrannosaurus... Scott Hartman's estimates for Spinosaurus put it at 15-16 metres in length and 11-13 tons. Spinosaurus' massive weight and strength advantage would allow it to knock Tyrannosaurus to the ground, and this would break much of Tyrannosaurus' ribcage and kill it. Spinosaurus is taller than Tyrannosaurus, so Tyrannosaurus' small bite gape will be less efficient. Stop ignoring my points. Spinosaurus would win against Tyrannosaurus more often that not. Edited by TheMechaBaryonyx789, Jan 24 2014, 05:29 PM.
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| TheMechaBaryonyx789 | Jan 24 2014, 05:28 PM Post #2915 |
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Herbivore
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![]() This is Scott Hartman's accurate reconstruction of Spinosaurus. You do realise that we can reconstruct missing parts of the Spinosaurus specimens found using parts from its relatives (such as Irritator). There have been more recent specimens of Spinosaurus than the 'WW2 Spinosaurus specimen'. According to Scott Hartman and other palaeontologists, Spinosaurus is considerably larger than Tyrannosaurus. It's not a fiction dinosaur! |
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| Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex | Jan 24 2014, 05:31 PM Post #2916 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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A bite to the neck won't kill Spinosaurus? Are you biased against T-Rex or something? Just one rare and unusual case can't be used for a general situation... And how can Spino knock T-Rex? Its jaws? They can't stand much pressure on them. And the claws? No evidence of them being so strong.
Edited by Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex, Jan 24 2014, 05:34 PM.
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| spinosaurus rex | Jan 24 2014, 05:35 PM Post #2917 |
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Carnivore
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tyrannosaurus can kill a spinosaurus with a bite to the neck. but spinosaurus can indeed knock a t.rex down due to its mass alone. along with powerful arms. I still find that a 16 meter spinosaurus would win around 55%. and its really pretty radical to assume spinosaurus claws were weak, despite all of its relatives suggesting otherwise.
Edited by spinosaurus rex, Jan 24 2014, 05:40 PM.
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| Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex | Jan 24 2014, 05:44 PM Post #2918 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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True, but how can you prove to me that those bones were not scavenged? I'm saying Spinosaurus wasn't built to kill things like T-Rex. It didn't have the weapons. Its skull couldn't stand too much pressure. Eating a fish (even if its big) is still as simple as catching it and ripping it apart. Imagine a gahrial eating a fish. Just give the gahrial a theropod body and make the fish a Great White shark. I still can't see Spiny as a good fighter. I didn't say Spiny's claws are weak. I just said there's no evidence of them being that strong Edited by Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex, Jan 24 2014, 06:41 PM.
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| TheMechaBaryonyx789 | Jan 24 2014, 05:57 PM Post #2919 |
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Herbivore
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Stop ignoring my points. An Edmontosaurus survived a bite to the head from an adult Tyrannosaurus, so Spinosaurus cold easily survive a bite to the neck from Tyrannosaurus. Spinosaurus could knock Tyrannosaurus to the ground using its massive bulk (its overall body, not its jaws). The claws are very powerful. Scott Hartman's skeletal of Spinosaurus clearly shows that it had very robust claws and arms. Edited by TheMechaBaryonyx789, Jan 24 2014, 07:26 PM.
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| The All-seeing Night | Jan 24 2014, 06:02 PM Post #2920 |
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You are without honor
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If the spinosaurus was really anywhere close to 20 tons as the higher estimates state, then spino should win. At close weights I'd give it to t.Rex. I would guess that the claws and arms of tge spino would be fairly powerful considering their size and their usage as weapons (probably to rip open fish and other prey) |
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| TheMechaBaryonyx789 | Jan 24 2014, 06:05 PM Post #2921 |
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Herbivore
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Spinosaurus' jaws are far more robust than the gharial's jaws. My comparison from earlier clearly shows that. A 16 metre ~13 ton Spinosaurus would win more like 70-80% of the time against a 12.3 metre ~8 ton Tyrannosaurus. Spinosaurids could be generalists. There is evidence that an immature Baryonyx specimen hunted a sub-adult Iguanodon. The prey that Spinosaurus usually hunted was Oncopristis (excuse me if I spelt that wrong), which is a giant armoured sawfish. Spinosaurus also hunted other fish with hide thicker than bone. Definitely powerful prey. Spinosaurus would of fought with many large Carcharodontosaurids in its environment. Tyrannosaurus had hardly any competition in comparison. Edited by TheMechaBaryonyx789, Jan 24 2014, 06:18 PM.
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| TheMechaBaryonyx789 | Jan 24 2014, 06:06 PM Post #2922 |
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Herbivore
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A 16 metre Spinosaurus would win more like 70-80% of the time against Tyrannosaurus. |
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| Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex | Jan 24 2014, 06:25 PM Post #2923 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Mecha, you're using one rare and unusual case to make a general guess. That T-Rex could have been weak or inexperienced. We have cases of lions being so weak due to starvation that they can't suffocate their victims. Does this mean that lions in general can't suffocate their prey? Show me a study of Spinosaur arms being that powerful. Unless i see a study suggesting so i'm not gonna believe that In normal conditions, there is no reason for competition between Cahrcha and Spiny. They hunt different prey. And when they were finally forced to compete, Spinosaurus went extinct. He's not adapted to hunt and kill big, terrestrial animals. No size difference's gonna change that. And Spinosaur jaws do look like a gahrial's. Look at the comparison i posted . Notice that they're long and thin. Of course they're more robust than a gahrial's (because Spino hunted bigger game) but they were the dinosaur version of a gahrial skull Edited by Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex, Jan 24 2014, 06:39 PM.
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| TheMechaBaryonyx789 | Jan 24 2014, 06:51 PM Post #2924 |
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Herbivore
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How do you know it was necessarily an unusual case? The Edmontosaurus specimen has very deep bite marks in its skull, but it still appears to have lived a great few years afterwards. The Tyrannosaurus that attacked the Edmontosaurus was very likely a healthy adult. Spinosaurus would be able to survive a bite to the neck from Tyrannosaurus. I showed you the study on a previous page; Scott Hartman's skeletal of Spinosaurus. It clearly shows that Spinosaurus has very robust arms, and very large claws (same with Spinosaurids in general). Spinosaurid's main food supply was fish. This fish was already very powerful prey. Spinosaurids could be generalists. You ignored my example of the immature Baryonyx specimen that hunted a sub-adult Iguanodon. Spinosaurus didn't go extinct because of competition with Carcharodontosaurus. Spinosaurus went extinct because its main food supply disappeared (the giant sawfish). The 16 metre long 13 ton Spinosaurus would dominate Carcharodontosaurus and Tyrannosaurus. Size and strength are massive advantages, and Spinosaurus has these advantages on its side. You used Suchomimus as an example in that comparison, and Spinosaurus has far more robust jaws than Suchomimus. If anything, Spinosaurus' jaws were far more comparable with a crocodile's jaws:
Edited by TheMechaBaryonyx789, Jan 24 2014, 06:55 PM.
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| Vobby | Jan 24 2014, 08:29 PM Post #2925 |
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Omnivore
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Mechabaryonyx, where did you get 13 tons Spinosaurus "from Hartman"? blaze showed otherwise:
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