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| Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,169 Views) | |
| Wolf Eagle | Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM Post #1 |
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M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() Spinosaurus aegyptiacus Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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| theropod | Jan 30 2014, 12:33 AM Post #3181 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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Well, Headden had the holotype at 0.8m, with a misscaled dentary of 52.5cm. Scaling that up to a 75cm dentary gives is 1.14m for the holotype skull. Dal Sasso et al.’s restoration suggests 126cm, mine suggests 122cm. That’s a difference to MSNM V4047 of 40-57%, 39% and 48% respectively, whereby the lower figures are those corresponding to an animal with an overbite (unlikely due to the reasons Headden explained).
Edited by theropod, Jan 30 2014, 12:39 AM.
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| MysteryMeat | Jan 30 2014, 01:02 AM Post #3182 |
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Herbivore
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75cm is the preserved length, the entire dentary would be longer than that. An over bite would result in a longer skull for holotype though, Cau's estimate is 132cm. |
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| Canadianwildlife | Jan 30 2014, 01:39 AM Post #3183 |
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Apex Predator
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But 5ft3 iches to 5ft11 inches is just the part of the skull, or is it the whole skull, sorry for my dumb post. Just curious. Edited by Canadianwildlife, Jan 30 2014, 01:40 AM.
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| blaze | Jan 30 2014, 01:57 AM Post #3184 |
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Carnivore
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@theropod Given how you linked to Headdens latest post it seems weird to me that you still believe he argued for the milan rostrum to come from a 50% larger animal, you should change the text in your size chart. @Canadianwildlife Something went wrong when converting those numbers haha, 16m is 52ft 6in and 18m is 59ft. Edited by blaze, Jan 30 2014, 02:11 AM.
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| Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex | Jan 30 2014, 02:02 AM Post #3185 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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My YT channel is ''kiarash608 and sorry for the late reply. And i basically have to agree here. But since Tyrannosaurus is a land based predator he knows that he needs to aim for the neck if he wants to kill its opponent. I can see him trying to get the neck. Edited by Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex, Jan 30 2014, 02:11 AM.
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| Jinfengopteryx | Jan 30 2014, 02:14 AM Post #3186 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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Wait, who is tyrannosaurus3 then? |
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| Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex | Jan 30 2014, 02:23 AM Post #3187 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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That was my old account i supposed that one was closed since it didn't let me join in... If i'm wrong, moderators please delete that one... |
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| TheMechaBaryonyx789 | Jan 30 2014, 02:31 AM Post #3188 |
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Herbivore
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Maybe, but it would be more difficult for Tyrannosaurus to reach Spinosaurus' neck due to Spinosaurus being larger and taller. |
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| theropod | Jan 30 2014, 02:44 AM Post #3189 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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![]() I must correct my earlier statement, 36% sounds realistic based on my revised restoration (that’s just mine though). I’ve adjusted the other chart. I’m well aware of the state of completeness of the dentary. But firstly, it is not missing much, and secondly, this is consistent with the approximate proportions also shown by Suchomimus/Cristatusaurus (note the latter has a more complete rostrum in terms of lenght). In case anyone is wondering, based on the lateral view of Hartman’s skeletal and the width for the holotype torso from Cau’s diagram, I get a 136%-holotype-sized Spinosaurus to be 2.2 times the volume of Sue. Based on when I did this kind of analysis the last time, I would not be surprised if I was going to be reasonably close, the variable this time being the amount of tissue to assume on the back (ie. how much of the dorsal superstructure to include in the area), which I fear will not be easy to dissolve. Anyway, I’m looking forward to Hartman’s GDI Edited by theropod, Jan 30 2014, 03:19 AM.
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| Hatzegopteryx | Jan 30 2014, 03:28 AM Post #3190 |
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Unicellular Organism
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Oh hello there Kiarash608 Didn't know it was you, I already saw your vids on Youtube. They're pretty good.Also I wouldn't be so sure, it did never fight an animal of such proportions and/or physiology. That is quite speculative. We don't know what its behaviours would be while fighting a larger predator |
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| blaze | Jan 30 2014, 04:06 AM Post #3191 |
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Carnivore
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You shoul look at this from Jaime Headden's latest post. Aligned is the likely way the two dentaries will be arranged, the holotype mandible scaled 136% will dwarf even more the milan rostrum, I'm convinced by Headden's hypothesis, the milan rostrum and the holotype of Spinosaurus aegyptiacus are not the same taxon... on the flip side, the actual skull of S. aegyptiacus will have a wider, maybe more robust skull if Headden's hypothesis is correct. Edited by blaze, Jan 31 2014, 02:42 AM.
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| Vobby | Jan 30 2014, 07:17 AM Post #3192 |
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Omnivore
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That's not something one want to read after so many pages of hard discussions. This strenghten my idea of staying away from here from some days. Bye! |
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| Drift | Feb 4 2014, 07:00 AM Post #3193 |
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High Spined Lizard
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Yes i agree |
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| Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex | Feb 4 2014, 02:33 PM Post #3194 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Hope you're back soon Vobby... |
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| Vobby | Feb 4 2014, 11:17 PM Post #3195 |
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Omnivore
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I am! Nice to see I am appreciated ![]() Anyway, my last statement was beyond childish. No one should care about who wins between this two guys more than how much he cares about Spinosaurids different species and their philogeny. So, that post from Headden is probably the best contribution for this thread until now. P.S. since I'm still an idiot, I can't resist saying that Tyrannosaurus wins as always, both against the Spinosaurus holotype and the Spinosaurine which had that rostrum. |
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Didn't know it was you, I already saw your vids on Youtube. They're pretty good.
2:23 AM Jul 14