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| Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,166 Views) | |
| Wolf Eagle | Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM Post #1 |
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M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() Spinosaurus aegyptiacus Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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| BITEFORCE MASTER | Feb 7 2014, 02:43 PM Post #3226 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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I don't know but spino I like better but trex has bite and I love biteforce soooooooooo Spino! He may not have the bite but he shore is faster and got good and powerful claws that could move the jaws out of the way and slice at him |
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| theropod | Feb 8 2014, 04:56 AM Post #3227 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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Measurements are indicated as blue lines (I suppose everybody here can relate the figures to the captions, I was too lazy to enumerate them), the lenght along the ventral surface of the centrum was measured using a path in gimp. I think the 6% discrepancy can easilybe explained by the difficulty in measuring along a surface accurately (perhaps that convexity near the posterior edge was not measured?). In any case, that’s significantly closer to the measurement from Charig & Milner than the straight-line distance in Cau’s scale. This is the 14th dorsal of baryonyx, but probably the 13th in Spinosaurus. Again, we can observe that Baryonyx’ vertebrae get bigger posteriorly, while Spinosaurus’ don’t (in fact anterior dorsals are deeper, although shorter than this one). Baryonyx’ centrum is amphicoelous, while Spinosaurus’ is opisthocoelous. The latter is a stronger connection. Funny how many functionally relevant differences you can find, BESIDES. neural spine height Furthermore, the anterior diameter figure for Baryonyx is an estimate, and the anterior end of the Spinosaurus vertebra is tapered repative to the posterior one. Somehow, Spinosaurus’ centrum does indeed seem more massive. @blaze: Oh, that’s indeed right. Well, a gabun viper then. Edited by theropod, Feb 8 2014, 05:02 AM.
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| Vobby | Feb 8 2014, 06:29 AM Post #3228 |
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Omnivore
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Woah. I wanna learn to do those things. Where did you take the picture and the measures for Spinosaurus? I didn't manage to find Stromer online... |
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| 7Alx | Feb 8 2014, 07:12 AM Post #3229 |
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Herbivore
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F**k this thread XD Edit: Honestly this thread is god-awfully boring. Edited by 7Alx, Feb 8 2014, 07:13 AM.
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| theropod | Feb 8 2014, 07:48 AM Post #3230 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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Vobby: I can send you the full description if you want. The pictures and measurements are from there. You’ll also find the measurements on the theropod database: http://archosaur.us/theropoddatabase/Megalosauroidea.htm#Spinosaurusaegyptiacus There’s an English translation available here: http://www.paleoglot.org/files/Stromer_15.doc http://www.paleoglot.org/browse.cfm but it lacks the plates AFAIK Concerning the rest, it’s pretty easy. I just found it a few days ago, but there’s a GIMP-extension→ (but make sure to put it in the plugin-directory, even though its a python-script, otherwise you’ll spend 20 minutes searching for the reason why it doesn’t show up in the menu) that returns you the lenght of the active path. Very useful for measuring axial lenghts, or everything more complicated than just a straight line for that matter. I was quite sucessful with it, for example sue turns out at almost exactly 12.3m in Hartman’s skeletal... |
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| blaze | Feb 8 2014, 08:29 AM Post #3231 |
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Carnivore
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The gaboon viper cheats, it has half as many vertebrae as most other snakes haha and frankly it looks as wide for is length as most varanids and crocs, probably more so haha. Damn it, that extension sounds incredible useful! |
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| retic | Feb 8 2014, 01:02 PM Post #3232 |
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snake and dinosaur enthusiast
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at this point i am unsure of who would win. i can't wait for hartman's GDI estimate to be finished!! once it is finished i will have a better idea on the outcome of this match up. if i had to guess who would win, i would go with t.rex, though i am unsure. edit: is it possible that MSNM V4047 and MNHN SAM 124 come from the same species? also, Headden once stated that the holotype of spinosaurus aegyptiacus was a subadult in 2011. http://qilong.wordpress.com/2011/10/07/for-a-few-spinosaurus-more/ "There are reasons to doubt the jaw was this deep, and the main reason is that IPHG 1912 VIII 19 is from a subadult animal, despite being from one of the largest theropod specimens found, and was thus not fully grown." i'm sorry if this has been posted already, but i had the urge to post this. Edited by retic, Feb 8 2014, 01:55 PM.
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| blaze | Feb 8 2014, 02:08 PM Post #3233 |
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Carnivore
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It could be, both come from Morocco, regarding the subadult comment, he doesn't cite that statement nor explains how we know that's the case and he doesn't mention it in his more recent post, maybe he got it wrong at the time? |
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| Vobby | Feb 8 2014, 07:20 PM Post #3234 |
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Omnivore
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Thank you, the english traslation is enough
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| theropod | Feb 8 2014, 09:35 PM Post #3235 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus holotype and MSNM, the latter scaled at 136% the size of the holotype.![]() Could someone please check for scaling errors? Edited by theropod, Feb 8 2014, 09:36 PM.
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| Vobby | Feb 8 2014, 10:07 PM Post #3236 |
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Omnivore
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Well, basing on Headden and Cau, the error is just to scale them... |
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| theropod | Feb 8 2014, 10:09 PM Post #3237 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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So you actually believe that rostrum you see there would have belonged to a skull the same size as the holotype dentary? |
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| Vobby | Feb 8 2014, 10:13 PM Post #3238 |
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Omnivore
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mmh, not sure, but depending on the overbite, I guess it's possible. Of course since they could not be the same taxon, the thing would lose much of its sense... |
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| theropod | Feb 8 2014, 10:17 PM Post #3239 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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Well, I actually think the 136% version fits very well in terms of width (and its overall fit is certainly far better than this→, which seems to be what some people imagine Spinosaurus’ skull to have looked like, massive overbite, tiny anterior "half" of mandible relative to the rest of the skull, hyper-elongated posterior "half" of mandible...). Considering how deep that dentary is, and what it would have had to widthstand to fullfill its purpose, it is not surprising it is a relatively robust mandible for this skull, but nowhere near unreasonable. I think that it is so massive compared to the more slender ones (since apparently the holotype being a subadult is not an available explanation) of other spinosaurids simply has to do with the animal’s size, and the size and shape of its teeth, alltogether requiring a greater resistance. Edited by theropod, Feb 9 2014, 12:31 AM.
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| retic | Feb 10 2014, 03:14 AM Post #3240 |
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snake and dinosaur enthusiast
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i thought MNHN SAM 124 came from algeria? http://archosaur.us/theropoddatabase/Megalosauroidea.htm#Spinosaurusaegyptiacus according to this MNHN SAM 124 came from algeria. either way algeria is closer to morocco than it is to egypt (where the spinosaurus aegyptiacus holotype was found). |
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