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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,159 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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Hatzegopteryx
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spinosaurus rex
Mar 1 2014, 10:20 AM
1. we have little proof of tyrannosaurus reaching such length.
Correction: We don't have evidence at all to support that.
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Ceratodromeus
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Hatzegopteryx
Mar 1 2014, 10:21 AM
Carnosaur18
Mar 1 2014, 10:07 AM
Carcharadon
Mar 1 2014, 10:04 AM
The height numbers are also total BS.
B.S. how? proof?
It is common knowledge here. FMNH PR 2081, the largest specimen known, is "only" ~12.3 metres. Scott Hartman, a very credible paleontologist, has a reconstruction of the specimen, which is nearly complete:

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you act like i don't know who scott hartman is? XD
What about the Fragmentary giants?
UCMP 137538 c. Rex and F. Rex?
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Ceratodromeus
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Hatzegopteryx
Mar 1 2014, 10:22 AM
Carnosaur18
Mar 1 2014, 10:19 AM
you guys are pathetic XD honestly, you can't provide me anything other then your opinion on the fight? all that your telling me is im right your wrong and that's it XD sad, i might as well go back to the world of animals forum, where they have intelligient discussions..
Coming from the one who shows even less evidence, hypocrite
Tyrannosaurus size for one...
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Hatzegopteryx
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UCMP 137538 is only known from metatarsals, scaling it from any other specimen isn't a wise thing to do since we have a lot of specimens and they all vary a lot. As you said, those are "fragmentary giants", and as I already explained, scaling from other specimens is not a smart thing to do as I already explained.

And I did explain who he is - So what?
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Hatzegopteryx
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Carnosaur18
Mar 1 2014, 10:31 AM
Hatzegopteryx
Mar 1 2014, 10:22 AM
Carnosaur18
Mar 1 2014, 10:19 AM
you guys are pathetic XD honestly, you can't provide me anything other then your opinion on the fight? all that your telling me is im right your wrong and that's it XD sad, i might as well go back to the world of animals forum, where they have intelligient discussions..
Coming from the one who shows even less evidence, hypocrite
Tyrannosaurus size for one...
Doesn't help your case, you only showed it after claiming something about us while also being equal, or worse as in you showed less evidence.
Edited by Hatzegopteryx, Mar 1 2014, 10:34 AM.
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Ceratodromeus
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Here's a list of specimens that are about 40 ft or more....

The Holotype- 11.9 meters(39 ft)
AMNH 5027- 12 meters(41 ft)
Thomas- 12 meters(40 ft)*
Devil Rex- 11.6 meters(38 ft)
Sue- 12-13 meters(40-43 ft)**
Stan- 12 meters(40.1 ft)
Scotty- 12 meters(40 ft)
Samson- 11.9 meters(39 ft)

Possible Tyrannosaurus' rivaling Sue-
C. Rex- 13-14 meters(43-45 ft)
F. Rex- 12-13 meters(40-43 ft)

*Projected adult size for Thomas
Thomas seems pretty essential to determining adult Tyrannosaurus size......also, are you going to tell me " we have little evidence that they got that big" after this list?
Also, i'm quite positive metatarsals don't drastically differ between individuals..
Edited by Ceratodromeus, Mar 1 2014, 10:37 AM.
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Hatzegopteryx
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Those specimens don't support your argument, they are totally irrelevant to your case and only support my statement that there is no evidence supporting 14 metres. And as I said, those specimens are pretty fragmentary, which means scaling from another specimen is not correct, seeing as our specimens vary in fragment proportions.
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Hatzegopteryx
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Carnosaur18
Mar 1 2014, 10:35 AM
metatarsals don't drastically differ between individuals..
They do, as well as many proportions on different specimens vary, not to mention the countless frauds regarding UCMP 137538.
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spinosaurus rex
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not to mention the fact that c.rex most likely wasn't 14 meters. its way to fragmentary to ussume that, being it's only 8- 10% complete. it's actually looking more like 12 meters and at the most, 13 meters if it was truely larger then sue
i posted the thread below
c.rex
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Ceratodromeus
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Hatzegopteryx
Mar 1 2014, 10:40 AM
Carnosaur18
Mar 1 2014, 10:35 AM
metatarsals don't drastically differ between individuals..
They do, as well as many proportions on different specimens vary, not to mention the countless frauds regarding UCMP 137538.
irrelavant how?
And oh i'm not even closed to finished, buddy.. Thomas the T-rex is about 34 ft long and 7,000-8,000 lbs at 17 years of age. This length and weight are close to what many say an adult Rex would average. However, at 17, Thomas still has a full year of rapid growth yet to come. Since T-rex put on nearly 10 lbs a day during this growth, Thomas would have gained over 3,650 pounds. So, at age 18, he would be 10,650-11,650 lbs. Probably would have been about 36-38 ft in length. That's comparable to what they say an adult Rex would average. But, Thomas would have had about 12 years of life before he died at about age 30. Tyrannosaurus rex grew throughout it's life. During those 12 years or so, Thomas probably could have put on over 2,000 lbs at least, probably more. With that, he would at least be over 13,650-14,650 lbs by the time he died with a length of over 40 ft. Thomas was a Male, keep that in mind. Females seem to be substantially bigger then the males. Based on this, it's my theory Thomas wasn't a freak individual, neither was sue( who seems to have gotten bigger then 12.4 meters, but i'll get to that). Not to mention again the c. Rex and F.Rex, it's entirely plausible they got to 14 meters, even if it's what they maxed out at.
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Hatzegopteryx
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Highly fragmentary specimens shouldn't be scaled up/down when there are several other specimens that vary a lot in proportions, as I said. UCMP 137538, C. rex and F. rex are way too fragmentary to have a length estimate, and we won't have a reliable one so soon, so for now, 14 metres is still baseless.
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Ausar
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Edited: Nvm.


I think still think Spinosaurus has an edge if it was in multi-digit tonnage mass.
Edited by Ausar, Mar 1 2014, 10:58 AM.
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Ceratodromeus
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spinosaurus rex
Mar 1 2014, 10:43 AM
not to mention the fact that c.rex most likely wasn't 14 meters. its way to fragmentary to ussume that, being it's only 8- 10% complete. it's actually looking more like 12 meters and at the most, 13 meters if it was truely larger then sue
i posted the thread below
c.rex
isn't 10% what we currently have of Spinosaurus? lol or some where around that?
That post means nothing, it's not evidence..
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spinosaurus rex
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Carnosaur18
Mar 1 2014, 10:45 AM
Hatzegopteryx
Mar 1 2014, 10:40 AM
Carnosaur18
Mar 1 2014, 10:35 AM
metatarsals don't drastically differ between individuals..
They do, as well as many proportions on different specimens vary, not to mention the countless frauds regarding UCMP 137538.
irrelavant how?
And oh i'm not even closed to finished, buddy.. Thomas the T-rex is about 34 ft long and 7,000-8,000 lbs at 17 years of age. This length and weight are close to what many say an adult Rex would average. However, at 17, Thomas still has a full year of rapid growth yet to come. Since T-rex put on nearly 10 lbs a day during this growth, Thomas would have gained over 3,650 pounds. So, at age 18, he would be 10,650-11,650 lbs. Probably would have been about 36-38 ft in length. That's comparable to what they say an adult Rex would average. But, Thomas would have had about 12 years of life before he died at about age 30. Tyrannosaurus rex grew throughout it's life. During those 12 years or so, Thomas probably could have put on over 2,000 lbs at least, probably more. With that, he would at least be over 13,650-14,650 lbs by the time he died with a length of over 40 ft. Thomas was a Male, keep that in mind. Females seem to be substantially bigger then the males. Based on this, it's my theory Thomas wasn't a freak individual, neither was sue( who seems to have gotten bigger then 12.4 meters, but i'll get to that). Not to mention again the c. Rex and F.Rex, it's entirely plausible they got to 14 meters, even if it's what they maxed out at.
c.rex is only 8-10 % complete. how can you assume 14 meters from that. the genetic variability in it is almost to much of a guess to make a proper length estimate.
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Ceratodromeus
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Edited: nonya ;)
Edited by Ceratodromeus, Mar 1 2014, 11:01 AM.
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