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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,155 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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Hatzegopteryx
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theropod
Mar 2 2014, 04:25 AM
Oh for godness sake! Again that growth rate debate? It’s beyond pointless. Yes, you can claim that certain T. rex specimens still had a bit more to grow. You can claim that in more or less every dinosaur specimen save for certain few, the vast majority is not fully grown!
But you also have to figure in that if a specimen is bigger than normal for its size, that doesn’t have to mean it would have been bigger than normal when older (even when extrapolating hypothetical sizes for not fully mature specimens!). In fact, that’s absolutely no evidence at all.
If a specimen that’s 16 years old is as big as another specimen that’s 25 years old, obviously the two did not grow the same way, otherwise the younger specimen would be smaller. accordingly, how can you claim they would have continued to grow the same way?

It makes absolutely no sense discussing this when comparing dinosaurs. It’s best to simply compare sexually mature individuals among them, specimens as they are preserved on the fossil record, not mythical predictions on the future of those in alternate timelines. Period.

But if you want, go on speculating on how big immature specimens may have got, which will likely result in 14m Tyrannosaurs, but also 16m Carcharodontosaurs and 20m Spinosaurs, simply keep in mind that is a fun speculation but not actually of scientific relevance, or of any relevance to comparing T. rex to Spinosaurus!

And "so many T. rex specimens approaching 14m"? You must be kidding me. There’s one SINGLE ISOLATED TOEBONE that theoretically could have come from such a freak, and an isolated phalany, not even accounting for individual variation, which is of course very great, holds the problems of correct assignment, which was only very tentative in the paper that described it. Notwithstanding that, the largest known individual is sue, and typical T. rex are 11.3-11.8m long, with varying degree of bulkiness.

You should use a typical T. rex to compare it to Spinosaurus, not a particularly large one.

I agree with every single word of this post
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Hatzegopteryx
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Jinfengopteryx
Mar 2 2014, 04:27 AM
He said bye, so we should also say bye. I am sure he will not learn, so this has no point.
We should consider that some people actually return even after saying bye, and he still had his say on that so it isn't totally pointless.
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TheMechaBaryonyx789
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Carnosaur18
Mar 2 2014, 02:14 AM
TheMechaBaryonyx789
Mar 1 2014, 05:38 PM
Carnosaur18
Mar 1 2014, 03:51 PM
blaze
Mar 1 2014, 01:53 PM
Ok, lets start.

@Carnosaur18

CMN 9380, the holotype, is estimated by Scott Hartman at 11.8m long

AMNH 5027 was estimated by Scott Hartman at 11.9m long, the skeletal mount is shy of 11.9m long too according to the laser scanned model from Hutchinson et al. (2011)

LACM 7509/10167 (Thomas) has a dentary 732mm long according to figure 1.27 in the book The Tyrant King, this is 96% that of B-rex (MOR 1125), which is itself
less than 90% the size of Stan, so considering its age, lengths much over 9.8m (32ft) are probably out of the question (so no 34ft), I'll talk about the speculated
adult size in short notice.

MOR 555 (devil rex), the mounted skeleton is shy of 11.9m long according to the laser scans by Hutchinson et al. (2011), cranial and limb bone measurements along
with comparison of orthographic images of the 3D models by Hutchinson et al. (2011) revels similar size to Stan and AMNH 5027 and the holotype, similarly sized
specimens whose differing lengths of 11.3m-11.9m (by Scott Hartman) are the result of Stan possessing a proportionally shorter neck and tail, they are the same
size otherwise, what length is more appropriate for MOR 555 will probably depend on its age, if closer to Stan, its proportions (and length) will be more appropriate.


Sue 12.3m estimated by Scott Hartman and is also the measurement of the laser scan of the mounted skeleton by Hutchinson et al. (2011), giving its completeness,
this is the most accurate estimate/measurement for any specimen, any increase in length will be nothing more than a longer tail.

RSM 2523.8 (Scotty) femur length of 129cm according to the book The Tyrant King, citing a personal communication with P. Currie, again, similar to size to Stan,
AMNH 5027, the holotype and MOR 555, at least based on that single measurements, it could be anything between 11.3 to 11.9m.

Samson, same as Scotty.

MOR 1126 (C-rex), supposed 10% bigger than Sue is Horner's in the field guess, known from a prearticular, a surungular, 20 fragmentary ribs, a chevron and 3
partial vertebrae, 9% complete by bone count (Larson 2008), classified under XL (extra large) class in the supporting information of Horner et al. (2011), actual
measurements unknown.

MOR 1152 (F-rex), known from a leg (whole leg?) a pelvis, some ribs, some dorsal vertebrae, all heavily eroded, a metatarsal, 7 caudals and 4 chevrons, 8%
complete by bone count (Larson 2008), classified under XL (extra large) class in the supporting information of Horner et al. (2011), actual measurements unknown


For comparison, MOR 555 is classified as large in Horner et al. (2011), is possible that MOR 1126 and MOR 1152 are Sue sized, if they were bigger than Sue, Horner
would have already made it public by now, they were excavated 13 years ago and preparation was complete at least 6 years ago, in fact Horner and Padian (2004)
use cross sections of several limb bones of F-rex in their T. rex growth study and never is it mentioned it being of exceptionally big size.

Now into the growth of Thomas, we already established that it was 96% the size of B-rex, which the soft tissue findings say it was already an adult. B-rex was
estimated to be 19 years old by Erickson et al. (2006) and according to them, the source of that table that you have posted several times, the end of the rapid
growth phase of T. rex occurs between 16 and 20 years of age, citing Schweitzer et al. (2005). Of course, this is according to their growth curve which is not
definitive nor is the only one, Horner and Padian (2004) estimate a younger age for the end of rapid growth, between 15 to 18 years old, they also estimate the age
of B-rex at 18 years old (standard deviation of 2 years) and estimate that its phase of rapid growth had already ended for at least 2 years before it died, they also
estimate MOR 555 to be 14 years old (standard deviation of 2 years), 6 years younger than what Erickson et al. (2006) estimates it at, and that it had already
stopped actively growing for 2 or 3 years, note the great size disparity between this two specimens (femur length of ~115cm vs 128cm), based on the disparate
results and the different estimates of age between several studies you can't accurately know right now, how much, if anything, would have Thomas grown had it died
later than it did, what if it had already stopped actively growing? from where is that 17 years of age? neither Horner and Padian (2004) nor Erickson et al. (2006)
mention it and I am not aware of any other study of this sort, can you cite it?

btw MOR 008 was neither very young nor very large, ridiculous claims by the MOR based on a badly reconstructed skull notwithstanding, Erickson et al. (2006)
estimate its age at 22 years and based on its cranial measurements (from Larson 2008) none of which are bigger than those of Stan or MOR 555, it was rather "normal" sized.

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you should know i study extensively in the realm of tyrannosaurs, and other theropods.

With all due respect but I have yet to see you post with citations to back up you words, nor you corrected any of the bad information of that "guest post" you posted
earlier (I'm not saying that is your opinion though) nor where you very rigorous on your data gathering of those length estimates of T. rex specimens nor where you
cautious in engaging in the speculation of Thomas' "adult size", do you have a library of pdfs of paleontology papers at least? if you study them extensively I would
expect you to have one and have been less careless in your previous posts, anyway, none of this I say I meant it with the intention of being rude, so I'll give you the
welcome to the forum, I see you are relatively new and I had not really seen you post before. edit, I have actually, I just didn't remember, welcome anyway, I didn't do it before.
yeah, i actually have a few PDFs....sited a few earlier....too disturbed by the lack of scientific discussion by the other two members to post them though
Those PDFs do not show any bloody evidence of a 14 metre long Tyrannosaurus specimen. They only provide information about the growth rate of Tyrannosaurus. While the growth rate seems particularly large, we just CANNOT speculate that certain Tyrannosaurus specimens would of grown to gargantuan sizes at adulthood.

You're the one who brought up a fictional fight scenario from another forum to use in this scientific discussion, so I very much doubt they are the ones causing lack of scientific debate.
XD you obviously didn't read the piece about thomas, Who at age 17 was around the standard size for a tyrannosaurus.....With the growth rate these animals go through, he could have grown over forty feet long, i'd say 43ish(before you ask, go look at my previous post). So a 14 meter Tyrannosaurus? possible.
You still cannot speculate how large it would of been at adulthood, since there is no FOSSIL evidence of a 14 metre Tyrannosaurus specimen.
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TheMechaBaryonyx789
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Carnosaur18
Mar 2 2014, 02:46 AM
man, i'm out. you guys just aren't very open to jackshit...so bye.
We are not open to your BS speculation. You need actual FOSSIL evidence if you want to create a convincing argument about the possible adult size of some immature Tyrannosaurus specimens, not just the growth rate of the species (which won't be exactly the same for each specimen).
Edited by TheMechaBaryonyx789, Mar 2 2014, 04:46 AM.
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Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex
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Hatzegopteryx
Mar 2 2014, 01:37 AM
Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex
Mar 1 2014, 10:00 PM
Hatzegopteryx
Mar 1 2014, 09:55 AM
Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex
Feb 25 2014, 07:48 PM
Some guys might disagree but in my opinion comparing prey items can be quite helpful.
In a fight to the death, one of the most important deciding factors is skill. The better your skills are, the better fighter you are. One of the best ways to try to get a picture of the fighting skills of an extinct predatory animal is to look at its prey. Predators evolve to hunt prey. If a theropod can kill a mighty ceratopsian with three horns on its face, its an indicator of the effectiveness of its weaponry in a fight. In other words you must be strong to kill something that's strong.
The bull analogy is poor one. Because prey items fight with their predators, not with the plants. A buffalo for example is a good fighter because he needs to fight off prides of hungry lions. On other words the effectiveness of a plant eater's weaponry is reveled when he fights off a powerful predator.
I don't think comparing prey is useful, even more when prey are unarmed. hose also aren't UFC fighters, they are different individuals of species that never dealt with eachother, so "skill" isn't that much of a thing.
Hate to disagree but skill and experience are very important. And comparing prey items gives you an idea of what they bring to the fight. But that's just my opinion.
Edit: i'm finally leaving this debate. I don't think there's anything more to discuss.
Why would prey matter, if that logic worked then all herbivores are defenseless because their prey are easy to kill.
Prey =/= diet.
We can't use the predator-prey relationship to state so cause an herbivore is not a predator and therefore doesn't have a prey.
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Hatzegopteryx
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TheMechaBaryonyx789
Mar 2 2014, 04:45 AM
Carnosaur18
Mar 2 2014, 02:46 AM
man, i'm out. you guys just aren't very open to jackshit...so bye.
We are not open to your BS speculation. You need actual FOSSIL evidence if you want to create a convincing argument about the possible adult size of some immature Tyrannosaurus specimens, not just the growth rate of the species (which won't be exactly the same for each specimen).
I mostly agree
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Hatzegopteryx
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Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex
Mar 2 2014, 04:46 AM
Prey =/= diet.
We can't use the predator-prey relationship to state so cause an herbivore is not a predator and therefore doesn't have a prey.
My analogy actually made sense imo, but here's a better example to save us time with less explaining and more understanding:

Let's say a pretty well-armed feline preys on small birds only. They are small, defenseless birds. But the feline is still well-armed. Does that mean it isn't a capable killer?

I still disagree with the concept of "Creature Y is better than Creature X in combating terms because its prey items are harder to kill".
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thesporerex
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Idiot troll is idiot
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Ceratodromeus
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thesporerex
Mar 2 2014, 05:52 AM
Idiot troll is idiot
XD y'all really love bashing on people thinking it's cool? pathetic. Simply pathetic. Oh, and Theropod, never said there were so many approaching 14 meters, so why Dont you go read my statements, and not glance over them? idiot troll is idiot, says you buddy.
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Hatzegopteryx
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Carnosaur18
Mar 2 2014, 11:16 AM
thesporerex
Mar 2 2014, 05:52 AM
Idiot troll is idiot
XD y'all really love bashing on people thinking it's cool? pathetic. Simply pathetic. Oh, and Theropod, never said there were so many approaching 14 meters, so why Dont you go read my statements, and not glance over them? idiot troll is idiot, says you buddy.
He didn't mention you or anyone else in particular, but if the hat suits you, use it.
Edited by Hatzegopteryx, Mar 2 2014, 11:26 AM.
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thesporerex
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Carnosaur18
Mar 1 2014, 09:39 AM
Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex
Feb 25 2014, 07:48 PM
Some guys might disagree but in my opinion comparing prey items can be quite helpful.
In a fight to the death, one of the most important deciding factors is skill. The better your skills are, the better fighter you are. One of the best ways to try to get a picture of the fighting skills of an extinct predatory animal is to look at its prey. Predators evolve to hunt prey. If a theropod can kill a mighty ceratopsian with three horns on its face, its an indicator of the effectiveness of its weaponry in a fight. In other words you must be strong to kill something that's strong.
The bull analogy is poor one. Because prey items fight with their predators, not with the plants. A buffalo for example is a good fighter because he needs to fight off prides of hungry lions. On other words the effectiveness of a plant eater's weaponry is reveled when he fights off a powerful predator.
I found this little gem on the Jurassic world forum, i have full permission from the writer to use it. Probably the most unbiased, realisti outcome there is.
In the Near corner...Tyrannosaurus Rex


the "Tyrant lizard King"

Length: 14 meters

Height: 6 meters

Weight: 8 tons

Tyrannosaurus Rex was one of the largest land based predators of all time. With jaws stretching 5 feet long, and bannana shaped teeth, this animal could eat whatever it wanted. It's jaws were built specifically for crushing bone and armor, which evolved to deal with the intimadating Ankylosaurus and Triceratops. Tyrannosaurus Rex roams on both Isla Sorna and Nublar, competing with the variety of huge theropods around it. Tyrannosaurus is a dull orange color, with huge white half circles splotched on the body.

In the far corner....Spinosaurus Aegyptiacus



the "Egyptian Pharoah"

Length: 16 meters

Height: 6.5 meters

Weight: 9 tons

Spinosaurus is the fisherman from hell. It preys on a large variety of Sharks and other fish, and on occasion, takes out a small hadrosaur. The key to their massive size is simple. Little competition. Spinosaurus evolved to a semi aquatic life style to avoid competition with other large bodied predators. However, it will use its large size to scare off a predator from its kill. Spinosaurus' body is a jet black color with a creamy white colored face, a small stripe running down the neck. They range in decent numbers on both Sorna and Nublar

And...Begin...

The blazing noon sun beats down on Isla Nublar as a female Tyrannosaurus goes on the hunt. She has spent most of her day lazily sprawled under her favorite pine tree, but the intense heat forced her from her slumber. She raises her immense body off the ground, and feels her stomach growling. It has been days since she last had a decent meal, and she decides to search out easy prey. The Tyrannosaurus lifts her head into the air, and sniffs out a target. She smells the familiar scent of blood, and pinpoints the animal. Not exactly sure what it is yet, she starts her long walk.

An hour goes by and the sun is still unrelenting. The Tyrannosaurus can see waves of heat coming off the parched ground, she decides to divert from her hunt to search for water. Luckily for her, a small section of river was only forty yards away. She lumbers towards it, and lowers her massive head to drink. She had completly forgotten about her hunt, when a soft snorting sound came to her ears. She jerked her head up, and across the river was a small Parasaurolophus, aparently unaware of the Predators proximity. The hadrosaurs back was turned, and the Tyrannosaur moved. With three massive strides, she closed the distance between her and the Hadrosaur. The female Tyrannosaurus bit it through the neck, shutting out the shrill cry of the dying hadrosaur. She pushes the dead animal to the ground and began to feast.

Nearby, a gargantuan male spinosaurus looks for sharks in his favorite spot. He had been here since he was a mere hatchling, and he knew no other spot. He watches the water intently, when he hears a shrill cry. The enormous Spinosaur jerks his attention from the lazy river as he hears the hadrosaurs dying shriek. The Spinosaur looked to the water once more, and not seeing any fish, decided the call was worth checking out. The intense heat was becoming a bother to him, and he flushed blood towards his sale, turning it white. The Male spinosaurus immidiatly felt the relief, and walked steadily toward the open plain from which the shriek came from.

The female Tyrannosaur had just started to eat the Hadrosaurs liver, when she felt the ground begin to shake. She scanned the plain, listening intently for any sign of a rival predator. The booming stopped, and The Tyrannosaurus assumed the local Sauropods had knocked down another tree. She turned her head back to the carcass and resumed feeding.

The Spinosaurus observed the Tyrannosaur from the cover of a stand of conifer trees. He was shocked the Tyrannosaurus had not noticed him. He watched her feed, but realized the choice cuts would soon be gone if he didn't act now. As he lifted his massive left foot, he noticed a small breeze. He turned to face the east, and saw a bank of grey clouds creeping over the small mountains. A storm was brewing. The Spinosaurus turned his attention back to the Tyrannosaur, and stepped out from the trees.

The Female Tyrannosaurus was too intent on eating the Hadrosaur she didn't notice the gust of wind, or the super predator slowly making his way towards her. Through her periphrial vision, the Tyrannosaur noticed a huge shape making its way towards her. She swallowed the remains of the liver, and stood at attention. She was stunned to see the massive spinosaurus, only across the river now. She looked at the Spinosaurus, and gave a blood curdling roar that shook the earth. She put her massive foot down on her kill, just as the wind began to pick up in intensity.

The Spinosaurus Howled at the Tyrannosaur, and turned his sail a bright yellow color. The Tyrannosaur stood her ground. She was going to eat her kill, no one else. Seeing his tactic had failed to scare the Tyrannosaurus, The Spinosaurus advanced. He stepped into the river, and the Tyrannosaurus snapped her jaws, the final chance for the Spinosaurus to leave. The Spinosaurus stood still for a moment, apprehensive on what to do. His growing hunger made that decision for him.

With a high pitched growl, the Spinosaurus rushed forward. The female Tyrannosaurus planted one foot firmly into the ground, bracing for impact. The bull spinosaurus slammed directly into her with incredible force, and she went reeling back. The Spinosaur grabbed the dead Hadrosaurs foot, and began to drag it away. He noticed the clouds had advanced, and the sky was darkening.

The Female Tyrannosaurus noted this, and rushed at the Spinosaurus. He saw this coming, and as the Tyrannosaur approached, he swung his massive arm. He connected with the side of her head, and she went reeling into the water. The Spinosaurus resumed dragging the hadrosaur, but he miscalculated. The Tyrannosaurus had recovered quickly, and now lunged at the Spinosaurus neck. Before he could swing his arm, the Tyrannosaur bit into the side of his neck. The spinosaur pivoted, and The female Tyrannosaur lost her grip.

The two adversaries turned to face each other, sharing a mutual icy glare. They roared simultaneously, just as a strong bit of wind blew the foliage around them into the air. The two massive theropods started walking circles around each other, trying to pinpoint a weak spot on the other. The Tyrannosaurus began to close the circle, and the Spinosaurus lunged. The female Tyrannosaurus attempted to dive out of the way, but she was too slow. The Spinosaur caught her by the side, and bit down on her back. His crocodile like teeth failed to penetrate deep enough to create a lethal wound, but he had shredded the Tyrannosaurs side with his grip.

The female Tyrannosaurus lurched forward, and the Spinosaurus almost fell to the ground. The Tyrannosaur spun around, and rammed her head into the Spinosaurus' side. The bull Spinosaur teetered precariously for a moment, but regained his balance. He turned once again to face the Tyrannosaur, who was now rushing head on at him. He swung his arm, but couldn't follow through. To his horror, the Tyrannosaur had his arm in her mouth. With a sickening crunch, The Tyrannosaurus crushed the Spinosaurus' arm. She released it, and it hung limply in the cold air. Fueled by fury, the Spinosaur lurched forward. The Tyrannosaur saw this coming, and jumped to the side. She was bleeding heavily, and breathing came at great difficulty. She needed to end this.

The Spinosaur had the same thoughts going through his head. The hadrosaur was the last thing on his mind now. This fight was personal. The two behemoths faced each other and roared defiantly, while lightning flashes nearby. The two super predators rush towards each other, mouth agape. The Tyrannosaur lowers her head, and the Spinosaur prepares to finish her off with a neck bite.

The Tyrannosaur rams head on into the Spinosaur, and he bites down on her back. The force of the Tyrannosaurs impact lifted the spinosaur slightly off the ground, and he lost his grip. The Tyrannosaur thrashes her head, and the spinosaur almost falls over. As he reels backwards, the Tyrannosaurus rushes at him again. She bites down on his neck, and he slumps to his knees. He swats at the Marauding Tyrannosaur, sinking his claws into her neck. He digs them in deep, and the Tyrannosaur applies pressure to her bite. The talons of the spinosaur slide slowly out of her neck, as he takes his last breaths. The female Tyrannosaurus throws the Spinosaurus to the ground, and walks back to finish off her dinner. She almost collapses from her injuries, buckling under what was probably a broken toe bone.Thunder rumbles, and she lets out a high pitched roar into the darkened sky..

and the winner is...Tyrannosaurus!
Using fanfiction for jurassic park based on jurassic park's dinosaur sizes as evidence. K den
Edited by thesporerex, Mar 2 2014, 11:29 AM.
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Hatzegopteryx
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I know right, what's next? A roleplaying post? Don't come with "I just posted his interpretation", because his "interpretation" is irrelevant to our debate. Also, you said you had left - Funny enough, you checked the thread and replied to someone.
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Spinodontosaurus
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The problem is, is that there is so little basis for ANY specimen reaching 14 meters; only UCMP 137538 can reasonably be suggested to _perhaps_ have reached such a size (est. 14.4 meters based on 'Sue'), and even then it is just an isolated pedal phalanx. And since it is just an isolated toe bone, for all we know this individual could have had disproportionately small feet; indeed scaling from Stan rather than Sue (who have feet roughly equal in size) yields a far lower estimate of 13.2 meters.
The only other specimen that can even be suggested to exceed 13 meter is MOR 1126 - aka Celeste or 'C-rex'. Horner originally estimated it to be ~10% larger than Sue, so maybe 13.5 meters. This guestimate is over a decade old and nothing more has been said of it, despite several papers and books having referenced MOR 1126, so the accuracy of the claim is questionable.
As I mentioned in my previous post, there is a pedal phalanx assigned to MOR 1126 in Longrich et al. "Cannibalism in Tyrannosaurus", and it is 5~6% larger than the corresponding bone in Sue, so perhaps a total length of 13 meters. But seeing as this is again just a toe bone we could scale by Stan instead, which would yield a total length of about 12 meters.

Now I personally think 12 meter specimens are completely normal, you don't have to be exactly equal to an estimated mean total length to be considered a normal individual. And when this mean is estimated from specimens spanning several millions of years and therefore many individual populations, across two morphotypes (possibly representing genders) and of different growth stages, the validity of any such mean is pretty darn low in my opinion.
But there is very little evidence of specimens exceeding 13 meters, and virtually none of them exceed 14 meters.
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Hatzegopteryx
Unicellular Organism
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UCMP 137538 can also not even be a Tyrannosaurus rex for all we know, but I wouldn't say that fdue to the lack of evidence to support it. I would rather leave UCMP 137538 alone for now, eeing as nothing in regard to its size is conclusive.
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Ceratodromeus
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Aspiring herpetologist
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Hatzegopteryx
Mar 2 2014, 11:32 AM
I know right, what's next? A roleplaying post? Don't come with "I just posted his interpretation", because his "interpretation" is irrelevant to our debate. Also, you said you had left - Funny enough, you checked the thread and replied to someone.
yes, you missed me ;) i shoulda clarified, i have no intention of leaving the forum. I simply meant the discussion, because, well, y'all seem like you ain't open to anything any one else has to say.
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