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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,140 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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vegetarian
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Herbivore
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theropod
Jul 4 2014, 11:14 PM
@vegetarian: Please stop posting scenes from onsters Resurrected all over the place, it’s so inaccurate it doesn’t even deserve to be called a documentary.

You are likely one of the reasons for @Drift’s irrational aversion against science that has to do with Spinosaurus’ size and ecology…
onsters Resurrected=monsters Resurrected
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theropod
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So?
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Ceratodromeus
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vegetarian
Jul 7 2014, 08:38 PM
theropod
Jul 4 2014, 11:14 PM
@vegetarian: Please stop posting scenes from onsters Resurrected all over the place, it’s so inaccurate it doesn’t even deserve to be called a documentary.

You are likely one of the reasons for @Drift’s irrational aversion against science that has to do with Spinosaurus’ size and ecology…
onsters Resurrected=monsters Resurrected
Monsters Resurrected had well enough intentions. But they oversized the Spinosaurus, had it lift a thirty foot long, 2 ton abelisaur clean off the ground, shred the face of a sarchosuchus, and annihilate a Carcharodontosaurus with a cursorial swipe of it's claws. All things it, in all likely hood, would not be able to do in reality. Posting these on threads that have Spinosaurus, or the like, is completely irrelevant and borderline annoying,
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The Reptile
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What size did they put spinosaurus at? Either or, they did get it right however that lifting prey animals much smaller than itself off the ground is a plausible method given what we know of it (I firmly agree with this). An abelisaurid of that size comparably would be a very easy picking for spinosaurus. Although a lot of it was in fact inaccurate and overexaggerated, such as how it tore the sarcosuchus' flanks apart with a couple of swipes
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Spinodontosaurus
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Well the type specimen of Rugops only has a 31.5 cm long skull (not 45 cm as I have erroneously posted on the forum in the past), only just over half the length of Carnotaurus or Skorpiovenator skulls.
The 3 - 4 meter theropod that this would imply wouldn't be any heavier than an African Lion at the upper extent of the length range, or at the lower extent as small as a Jaguar.

IIRC this specimen may have been a juvenile or something, but even so at that size a large theropod could easily hoist it in their jaws, never mind one as large as Spinosaurus.
Edited by Spinodontosaurus, Jul 9 2014, 04:49 AM.
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The Reptile
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So the show was likely more accurate in terms of size?
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theropod
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I don’t know how large exactly their Spinosaurus was, but I’ll wager sheer size wasn’t the main problem (despite it looking too big compared to the Carcharodontosaurus and the Sarcosuchus).
Its proportions were off (head far too big) and its behaviour (trying to attack a paralititan, slapping a Carcharodontoaurus in the face and killing it, eviscerating a Sarcosuchus with a few scratches, outrunning a Rugops…) and biomechanics (it dies when its sail breaks, it was a tremendously fast runner…) were flawed.
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The Reptile
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I don't think proportions were on their list of priorities, especially if the head-body ratio in the show wasn't all that tremendous.

But I haven't even seen the entire episode, so who am I to judge...
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theropod
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No, obviously not. That’s one of the problems there are with that show (and yes, the skull was far oversized. it made the whole animal look as if it was straight out of some computer game–which it probably was.).
Edited by theropod, Jul 10 2014, 03:02 AM.
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Hatzegopteryx
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"Slapping" behaviour in spinosaurids is just overrated generally...
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theropod
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Yeah, because it was likely not employed, or at best rudimentary. documentaries never seem to care, but MR took it to the extreme, by portraying a single swipe as deadly to a carcharodontosaurus…
Edited by theropod, Jul 10 2014, 06:27 AM.
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Jinfengopteryx
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The Reptile
Jul 10 2014, 02:44 AM
I don't think proportions were on their list of priorities, especially if the head-body ratio in the show wasn't all that tremendous.

But I haven't even seen the entire episode, so who am I to judge...
Given that they always repeat the same scenes over and over again, you can actually judge it from watching the first minutes.
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The Reptile
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However there still are things that the show did get right, such as the killing capacity (or lack thereof) of spinosaurus' dentition. I am really glad that at least they compared it to modern crocodiles and not carcharodontosaurus in THAT realm.

And I do admit, I think the head-shaking theory is logical to believe and hypothesize about given what we have of the creature, but after reading papers about skull resistance in torsion I no longer believe it. But yet, I will give it the benefit of the doubt in that it, albeit not testing its skull strength, at least theorized such a killing method based on its dental morphology.

I am still quite surprised that a lot of those very gifted paleontologists actually spit out stupid ideas such as what was presented in the show- most of them have been seen in documentaries
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blaze
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Shows like that use the magic of editing to make paleontologist say anything they want, but I don't remember any outrageous thing said by a paleontologist in that show.

edit:
I have transcribed everything said by a paleontologist in that episode up the 13th minute mark, it's pretty much the standard stuff, it was big, it was weird, it had spines and crocodile-like jaws with conical teeth and big arms and claws, it lived among other large predators and stuff. The only "wrong" thing is that they mention Sarcosuchus but there's no evidence that the paleontologist mentioning it was doing so answering the question "large meat-eatings things that lived alongside Spinosaurus".
Edited by blaze, Jul 11 2014, 08:09 AM.
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vegetarian
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50/50
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