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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,128 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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genao87
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oh my god, talk about a whole 180 degree turn.
Edited by genao87, Oct 6 2014, 12:44 AM.
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Jinfengopteryx
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Um, whut? How does this relate to what you guys just discussed above?
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genao87
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Jinfengopteryx
Oct 6 2014, 01:29 AM
Um, whut? How does this relate to what you guys just discussed above?

what do you mean? Spino has been downsize greatly if what Cau says is true. Also that lower stance now that it has...if this is the case, then I cant see Spino winning any of its matches against the other therapods.....unless it went into deep water which i believe the other giant meat eaters wouldn't do.

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Ceratodromeus
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Well, if S. aegyptiacus was as tied to the water as these new finds suggest, the possibility of it being rather heavy is due to the water simply allowing animals to weigh more then their terrestrial counterparts.

as for this fight, i'd say 50/50...Maybe with a slight edge towards Tyrannosaurus
Edited by Ceratodromeus, Oct 6 2014, 02:31 AM.
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bone crusher
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Even in shallow water I would still put my money on Rexy, but only in deep water when Spino's upward facing nostrils would become real advantageous for better breathing thus gaining more maneuverability.
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Spartan
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Carnosaur18
Oct 6 2014, 02:26 AM


as for this fight, i'd say 50/50...Maybe with a slight edge towards Tyrannosaurus
50/50 on land? I really don't see that if 6-7 tonnes is Spinosaurus' maximum. 6 tonnes would have been T-Rex's average weight. The only reason why there was so much debate over this fight was the "fact" that Spinosaurus had a rather big size advantage, now almost everything is in favor of T-Rex.

I agree that Spinosaurus vs giant Crocodylians now would be very interesting match ups.
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Ceratodromeus
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Spartan
Oct 6 2014, 10:17 PM
Carnosaur18
Oct 6 2014, 02:26 AM


as for this fight, i'd say 50/50...Maybe with a slight edge towards Tyrannosaurus
50/50 on land? I really don't see that if 6-7 tonnes is Spinosaurus' maximum. 6 tonnes would have been T-Rex's average weight. The only reason why there was so much debate over this fight was the "fact" that Spinosaurus had a rather big size advantage, now almost everything is in favor of T-Rex.

I agree that Spinosaurus vs giant Crocodylians now would be very interesting match ups.
I've seen 6 tons as the 'averge' and i haven't seen anything stating 7 tons was the absolute maximum for S. aegyptiacus. Point me in the direction of a paper stating such?

Both animals are at roughly the same sizes, though Spinosaurus does have the disadvantage over land. I've changed my mind....65/35 in favor of Rexy
Edited by Ceratodromeus, Oct 7 2014, 01:28 AM.
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Spartan
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I confused it, he was referring to the largest found specimen I think.

Quote:
 
An estimated 6-7 tonnes for the largest specimens of Spinosaurus is therefore the most plausible


http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//theropoda.blogspot.de/2014/09/spinosaurus-revolution-final-episode.html&hl=en&langpair=it|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8
Edited by Spartan, Oct 7 2014, 08:33 AM.
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blaze
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Cau cites a personal communication with Simone Maganuco (spelling?) for the 6-7 tonnes claim, he is one of the authors of the new paper on Spinosaurus, given how they estimated the center of mass of spinosaurus using their 3d model they also have to have obtained a weight estimate, they didn't decide to include it in the paper for who knows what reasons.

@genao87
If you go by the estimates found in scientific papers, the reduction is not that drastic (was 7-9 tonnes).
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genao87
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blaze
Oct 7 2014, 09:21 AM
Cau cites a personal communication with Simone Maganuco (spelling?) for the 6-7 tonnes claim, he is one of the authors of the new paper on Spinosaurus, given how they estimated the center of mass of spinosaurus using their 3d model they also have to have obtained a weight estimate, they didn't decide to include it in the paper for who knows what reasons.

@genao87
If you go by the estimates found in scientific papers, the reduction is not that drastic (was 7-9 tonnes).
i was on the camp that Spino is like 11-12 tons....now 6-7....that is a big drop.

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Teratophoneus
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If broly's right with S.aegyptiacus' size, the Spinosaurid can still the cake.
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Jinfengopteryx
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What are you referring to? It is a long time ago since he posted here, is it something he wrote on WoA?
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Teratophoneus
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Jinfengopteryx
Oct 16 2014, 04:26 AM
What are you referring to? It is a long time ago since he posted here, is it something he wrote on WoA?
http://brolyeuphyfusion9500.deviantart.com/art/Spinosaurus-aegyptiacus-skeletal-reconstructions-483433951

Look. He says that S.aegyptiacus is still ~16.48 m long.
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Jinfengopteryx
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Thank you, his comment about NMC 41582 is interesting because it could safe the ones who hope for a 17 m Spinosaurus.
But I have to remind you that his scaling is probably based on the old methods because the neotype has no rostrum. Thus, I would be careful using it as a source. On the other hand, I wonder Ibrahim et al. take 15 m from.
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theropod
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Broly’s work is good, but we have to keep in mind that it bases on merely preliminary descriptions of the material. We have to wait until it actually gets figured and described in detail in order to draw proper conclusions (for example, a reconstruction of the skull, making their conclusions about taxonomy and their cross-scaling verifyable…). So, I hope they don’t take too long with that monograph.
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