Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Carnivora. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,127 Views)
Wolf Eagle
Member Avatar
M E G A P H Y S E T E R
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

Posted Image

Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

Posted Image
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Replies:
Spinodontosaurus
Member Avatar
Herbivore
[ *  *  *  * ]
Jinfengopteryx
Oct 16 2014, 05:56 AM
On the other hand, I wonder Ibrahim et al. take 15 m from.
If you scale their reconstruction to the size of MSNM V4047, it comes out at around, or slightly over, 15 meters long tip-to-tip. Over curves will be more, but I suspect this is what the estimate is based on.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
blaze
Carnivore
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
^That's what I thought too.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jinfengopteryx
Member Avatar
Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Spinodontosaurus
Oct 16 2014, 08:14 AM
Jinfengopteryx
Oct 16 2014, 05:56 AM
On the other hand, I wonder Ibrahim et al. take 15 m from.
If you scale their reconstruction to the size of MSNM V4047, it comes out at around, or slightly over, 15 meters long tip-to-tip. Over curves will be more, but I suspect this is what the estimate is based on.
I am aware of their reconstruction, but a reconstruction also needs some kind of a basis for scaling, this is why I asked.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ansram
Unicellular Organism
[ * ]
You can only speculate on this. Unlike T-rex, Spino is quite enigmatic and there aren't enough artifacts to conclusively demonstrate the anatomy of spino.

If Spino were really a 18m long 15-20 ton giant, T-rex would be done and dusted in seconds. No contest here.

If Spino were a 14m 8-10 ton giant, they would be evenly matched.

I think T-rex jaw strength will not be much of a factor in this fight. Crocodiles have the strongest bite forces in the planet today, and it naturally follows that the enormous 10 ton Spino which has a lot of similarities with the croc would have had a much bigger bite than a modern Nile or saltwater croc. Thus while T-rex had a more powerful bite, Spino wasn't far behind and had other powerful arsenal in its armoury (like huge arms and claws).

Consideration should be given to the role of spino's sails. If the neural sails are strong muscular humps, then this is a very strong and top heavy beast. If these sails were fat stores instead, then it could be turn out to be a structural weakness in big fights.

However, some of the recent findings seem to point towards Spinosaurus being primarily aquatic, and equipped with short legs etc. If this is true, Spino would stand no chance against T-rex or any other large theropod dinosaur on land.

Overall, given the available evidence, I would give this 60-40 to Spinosaurus due to its superior size, much superior arm strength, superior claws etc.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ceratodromeus
Member Avatar
Aspiring herpetologist
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
i agree with most of what you stated here, but...
- a baryonyx scaled up to 17 meters yielded a bite force of ~ 2 tons, it's safe to assume S. aegyptiacus had a bite force of ~3 tons.

- Spinosaurus' sail is still a point of heated debate. From the new mounts though, that appears to be what the structure was

- the new weight estimates were 7-9 tons

- what sereno has uncovered has shown us that spinosaurus is more specialized then we thought. For example, the legs are short and densely packed with bone; this would help with buoyancy in the water, and is one of the reasons it has been analogized with modern ducks
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
genao87
Heterotrophic Organism
[ *  *  * ]
i hope he is not low to the ground like that. Scott Hartman still disagrees with this model of Spino. Hopefully he can come up with some new data that counters this low to the ground Spino.

Better yet, more fossils showing a taller Spino.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ceratodromeus
Member Avatar
Aspiring herpetologist
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
genao87
Oct 20 2014, 08:07 AM
i hope he is not low to the ground like that. Scott Hartman still disagrees with this model of Spino. Hopefully he can come up with some new data that counters this low to the ground Spino.

Better yet, more fossils showing a taller Spino.

why a taller spino?

anyway, like mentioned above, we'll have to wait until the material is put together, measured, all that good stuff. this estimate from broly needs to be taken with a grain of salt imo.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
thesporerex
Kleptoparasite
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
All in all T. rex pretty much curb stomps Spinosaurus now.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hatzegopteryx
Unicellular Organism
[ * ]
thesporerex
Nov 6 2014, 04:34 AM
All in all T. rex pretty much curb stomps Spinosaurus now.
This is not necessarily true, as mass, which is obviously an important factor is still debatable.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jiggly Mimus
Member Avatar
Heterotrophic Organism
[ *  *  * ]
Wait a second. I thought the low to the ground theory was widely accepted. Also why would T-rex curb stomp him? I know its just an opinion but now isn't spino considered heavier than lots of hadrosaurs which is still being debated that T-Rex would even hunt or kill?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Spartan
Kleptoparasite
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
At parity T-Rex probably takes this on land. It's a whole 'nother story in water, though.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jiggly Mimus
Member Avatar
Heterotrophic Organism
[ *  *  * ]
Hmmm...
Spartan
Nov 8 2014, 06:40 AM
At parity T-Rex probably takes this on land. It's a whole 'nother story in water, though.
I would have to agree with you on that however don't you think that it would have came into contact with other predators? I mean if I have been studying this correctly where it lives is by the river and if it's by the river so are other creatures. More likely then not it would have fought with large carnivores on the banks don't you think ^o) Also didn't they say that it wasn't at parity due to the fact that it a lot off people would have considered it a mismatch then?
Edited by Jiggly Mimus, Nov 8 2014, 08:41 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Spartan
Kleptoparasite
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Jiggly Aegypticus
Nov 8 2014, 08:39 AM
Hmmm...
Spartan
Nov 8 2014, 06:40 AM
At parity T-Rex probably takes this on land. It's a whole 'nother story in water, though.
I would have to agree with you on that however don't you think that it would have came into contact with other predators? I mean if I have been studying this correctly where it lives is by the river and if it's by the river so are other creatures. More likely then not it would have fought with large carnivores on the banks don't you think ^o) Also didn't they say that it wasn't at parity due to the fact that it a lot off people would have considered it a mismatch then?
As far as I know Spinosaurus coexisted with Bahariasaurus and Carcharodontosaurus, but I don't think they would have had much reason to fight each other. Spinosaurus' main competitor was probably Stomatosuchus whom I consider a better (and more interesting) match for Spinosaurus than the other giant theropods.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jiggly Mimus
Member Avatar
Heterotrophic Organism
[ *  *  * ]
Spartan
Nov 8 2014, 09:47 AM
Jiggly Aegypticus
Nov 8 2014, 08:39 AM
Hmmm...
Spartan
Nov 8 2014, 06:40 AM
At parity T-Rex probably takes this on land. It's a whole 'nother story in water, though.
I would have to agree with you on that however don't you think that it would have came into contact with other predators? I mean if I have been studying this correctly where it lives is by the river and if it's by the river so are other creatures. More likely then not it would have fought with large carnivores on the banks don't you think ^o) Also didn't they say that it wasn't at parity due to the fact that it a lot off people would have considered it a mismatch then?
As far as I know Spinosaurus coexisted with Bahariasaurus and Carcharodontosaurus, but I don't think they would have had much reason to fight each other. Spinosaurus' main competitor was probably Stomatosuchus whom I consider a better (and more interesting) match for Spinosaurus than the other giant theropods.
Fair enough but is Biarmosuchus a fairly large therapod and even then I don't think that Spino would turn down a freshly killed unguarded Ouranosaur and that to me would lead to conflict.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ausar
Member Avatar
Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Stomatosuchus had like, no weapons though.

Edit: I might be wrong on that, it seems likely small, conical teeth existed in Stomatosuchus.
Edited by Ausar, Nov 8 2014, 10:49 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
2 users reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Dinosauria Interspecific Conflict · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Find this theme on Forum2Forum.net & ZNR exclusively.