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| Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,125 Views) | |
| Wolf Eagle | Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM Post #1 |
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M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() Spinosaurus aegyptiacus Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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| Ceratodromeus | Nov 11 2014, 01:26 AM Post #3841 |
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Aspiring herpetologist
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what is this “new spinosaurus” you guys keep talking about? no official size estimate has come out yet concerning the new finds; all we know is S.aegyptiacus had a more specialized body plan then previously thought |
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| Sarcoimperator | Nov 11 2014, 02:00 AM Post #3842 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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The size isn't the point. The point is that spinosaurus with this "new" body plan would have been too limited on land to fight tyrannosaurus effectively, even if it was really big. Of course this body plan isn't definite as of now. |
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| Jiggly Mimus | Nov 11 2014, 06:18 AM Post #3843 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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There is no proof of that. Ducks are good on land like water. The body plan is supposed to increase weight if I remember rihgt. |
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| Tyrant | Nov 11 2014, 06:26 AM Post #3844 |
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Omnivore
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Lol, what? It's clear that the semi aquatic spinosaurus is going to be at a huge disadvantage on land.
That honestly doesn't even matter. Unless spinosaurus has a huge weight advantage over rex, its getting wrecked. This is assuming they are fighting on land of course. |
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| Utahraptor | Nov 11 2014, 01:20 PM Post #3845 |
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Unicellular Organism
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The Current Spinosaurus body plan would leave it with a severe disadvantage against theropods over 6 tons on land. not only could it not rear itself on hind legs but its jaws in general were very narrow with teeth that simply would not withstand a struggle. Not to mention that giant sail on its back hindering lateral movement even more. It's also important to keep in mind that much of Spinosaurus's size comes from the tail and elongated ribcage which would do nothing in an actual fight with a giant theropod. The only real weapons it could use against a Tyrannosaurus Rex would be the large claws on its hands, but as mentioned earlier it not being able to rear up would render them pretty useless in a fight. Note: If this fight were to happen (ignoring the time separation) it'd most likely happen on land since the Spinosaurus would eventually have to come to land to change riverbanks and or breed/lay eggs. A Tyrannosaurs wouldn't venture out into deep swampy waters. A more interesting match up for Spinosaurus would be one of the large prehistoric crocodiles now . Edited by Utahraptor, Nov 11 2014, 01:21 PM.
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| theropod | Nov 11 2014, 04:21 PM Post #3846 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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Spinosaurus' teeth are the thickest of any theropod. And who sais it wasn't able to rear up? Many animals can rear up without neing capable of sustained bipidalism (anteatera, bears, diploddocids, probably egen macronarians). And many quadrupeds are quite capable of using their forelimbs. |
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| bone crusher | Nov 11 2014, 07:00 PM Post #3847 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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So it can rear up but at what cost? Don't expect speed and agility any where near to that of a T.Rex. Having thick teeth but weak jaws and neck muscle means nothing and will be ineffective in a fight. Spino's body plan is designed for catching fish in the water, not for wrestling with theropod over 8 tons. |
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| Jiggly Mimus | Nov 11 2014, 11:33 PM Post #3848 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Utah it said that it could rear up on legs like they presumed a stegosaur could. BTW where are you guys pulling this information I would like to read up on it. Yes I realize that it was semi aquatic I never said it wasn't there is no evidence that it couldn't be a lot like a duck when it comes to being on land. Out of the new findings T-rex is seeming more like the short face bear and more of a scavenger and the opportunistic predator. You guys are also underestimating these meat hooks of arms. They are large arms and powerful. The spino could rear up on its legs and pull the t-rex down and slash it or bite it up. @Utahraptor what are you talking about the teeth were designed to handle struggle. fish probably struggle the most of almost any creature. Edited by Jiggly Mimus, Nov 12 2014, 05:40 AM.
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| Utahraptor | Nov 12 2014, 06:15 AM Post #3849 |
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Unicellular Organism
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Are you basing this off the newly constructed Spinosaurus? Let me rephrase it, It couldn't rear up in a fight with a giant Theropod and live. It would be top heavy and off balance, it wouldn't be able to do anything. Look at the skeleton! Yes a Stegosaur could rear up on hind legs to reach vegetation . But it's not going to defend itself from an attacking Allosaur on hind legs is it? It's not designed to do that, just like how the new Spinosaurus wouldn't be capable of fighting on hind legs. |
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| theropod | Nov 12 2014, 07:13 AM Post #3850 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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What? None of what I wrote does not apply to the "newly constructed Spinosaurus" if that’s what you mean. The tooth-thing obviously bases on Dal Sasso et al. 2005. What I wrote about rearing up obviously refers to the most recent revisions, otherwise it would be pointless, wouldn’t it (since Spinosaurus would then have to be considered an obligate biped anyway). There’s a rather big difference between being unable to rear up and being in your opinion unable to rear up effectively in a fight. Of course it would be top-heavy (a bipedal posture is always somewhat top-heavy), but there are far top-heavier animals that can rear up, for example humans and ursids (that lack any notable tail to lower the COM or shift it backwards). We’re not discussing its ability to withstand a colision with a running T. rex (which would likely be fatal for both), we’re discussing its ability to use its own forelimbs to grapple. I didn’t talk about Stegosaurs, they have their weaponery on their tails anyway. However this exact behaviour (a typical quadruped rearing up to use its forelimbs to fight) is found in anteaters and bears, and strongly suggested for sauropods and ground sloths. |
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| Levi | Nov 12 2014, 02:30 PM Post #3851 |
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Unicellular Organism
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Really Spinosaurus is now a manlet, a shorty. It's long, thin and low with short legs. It's ribcage is shallow and thin, which indicates Spinosaurus was not massive for its size. just looking at the skeletons shows Tyrannosaurus has a far heavier build. And now we know that Tyrannosaurus was far taller. Tyrannosaurus is/has such advantages - Taller Just as heavy if not more so according to new estimates Faster (Tyrannosaurus was more specifically built for speed when compared to other large theropods) Thickset/more heavily built/ bigger frame. Tyrannosaurus just has bigger bones, see the verterbre. Deadlier bite. Both bites could do some damage but there is no question Tyrannosaurus had the deadlier bite. Bigger brain. Spinosaurus advantages - longer That's it. As it stands right now, on land the Tyrannosaurus could quite easily lean down and crunch straight through the Spinosaurus's neck. |
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| Tyrant | Nov 12 2014, 05:28 PM Post #3852 |
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Omnivore
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And your point is? Nobody denied the fact that spinosaurus could move on land, but you have to be deluded to think it could move anywhere near as efficiently as another theropod designed for terrestrial movement.
Yes, tyrannosaurus is an opportunistic predator, like most predators are. It safe to say the same applied to spinosaurus. Again, what's your point?
If anything you are overestimating its arms. There is no way that spinosaurus's arms would be strong enough to pull down an animal as large as tyrannosaurus. At worst, the claws could inflict painful, but superficial lacerations. Edited by Tyrant, Nov 12 2014, 05:30 PM.
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| Jiggly Mimus | Nov 13 2014, 04:33 AM Post #3853 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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why is that? There is no evidence to support that. the Spinosaurus with those arms and the new analysis of its body is saying that it would walk on its front legs therefore they would be strong I don't see any of the points you are making sorry... Please show me the evidence that Spino could not use it's arms like meat hooks. Edited by Jiggly Mimus, Nov 13 2014, 04:35 AM.
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| Tyrant | Nov 13 2014, 05:02 AM Post #3854 |
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Omnivore
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There is no evidence to support your belief that spinosaurus could actually pull down an animal as large as tyrannosaurus.
So? There are a lot of a quadrupedal animals in the world, but very few them are capable of bringing down animals of comparable size with their forearms.
No. You're the one making the claim that spinosaurus forearms were strong enough to pull a tyrannosaurus down with its arms. You have to bring the evidence, not me. Edited by Tyrant, Nov 13 2014, 05:02 AM.
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| Jiggly Mimus | Nov 13 2014, 05:13 AM Post #3855 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Sir that would mean that you give up on the argument and that you agree with me if you have no evidence to disagree with me. Yes also I am over 70% certain that other sauropods could trample each other under their weight. There is evidence supporting that they would be used as meat hooks all over fish are large. They are walking now so yeah thats the evidence I can give. |
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