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| Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,120 Views) | |
| Wolf Eagle | Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM Post #1 |
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M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() Spinosaurus aegyptiacus Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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| theropod | Dec 27 2014, 08:46 PM Post #3916 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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I’m not grasping at straws at all (maybe you’d realize that had you read posts of mine that actually deal with the CONTENT of Ibrahim et al. 2014). The cherry picking is what you are doing. You were unwilling to accept Dal Sasso et al.’s conclusion, when that was the most up to date information. But now you fully embrace the new information, because to you it seems to support your views. What exactly makes this so different from previous revisions? |
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| Ceratodromeus | Dec 28 2014, 03:34 AM Post #3917 |
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Aspiring herpetologist
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theropod, is there anything to suggest the model of ibrahim 2014 s innacurate? it appears you seem to think so, so i'm just curious. |
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| The Reptile | Dec 28 2014, 04:41 AM Post #3918 |
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Herbivore
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Eh, I still love the creature to death. Logic pertaining to morphology already did have a big(ish) role in these matchups (spinosaurus against a large, macrophagous genus of theropod), but only to the extent where it was unaffected by size, specifically when the previous estimates for spinosaurus put it at approximately 10-12 tons max with a typical theropodan body structure (heavier than the greatest estimates for tyrannosaurus) But now you are correct: with a supposed lack of terrestrial mobility and a definite lack of feeding characteristics adapted for hunting other dinosaurs, logically it would be at a disadvantage against a predator like tyrannosaurus, especially if they were the same size. Edited by The Reptile, Dec 28 2014, 05:01 AM.
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| Ceratodromeus | Dec 28 2014, 04:54 AM Post #3919 |
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Aspiring herpetologist
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the range given by maganuco in his correspondence with a member on another foum was 6-7 tons |
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| Teratophoneus | Dec 28 2014, 05:13 AM Post #3920 |
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Herbivore
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6-7 tonnes, not 6-7 tons. Remember that italians use short tons. Edited by Teratophoneus, Dec 28 2014, 09:10 AM.
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| Ceratodromeus | Dec 28 2014, 05:17 AM Post #3921 |
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Aspiring herpetologist
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right..i forgot about that one |
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| The Reptile | Dec 28 2014, 06:30 AM Post #3922 |
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Herbivore
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Well it would still be at a major disadvantage, because they were of roughly the same size (with perhaps tyrannosaurus being even larger). Even if it was at its previous size estimate of 10-12 tons, it would still be far less capable of killing its opponent than tyrannosaurus (which could possibly crush the spinosaurus' skull in fact) |
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| theropod | Dec 28 2014, 06:55 AM Post #3923 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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@ceratodromeus: That wasn’t my point. For the record, I don’t think it’s more inaccurate than previous reconstructions, and like reconstructions before it has added new material, meaning it does base on more data overall. It also isn’t free of problems (for example the crossscaling of all the patchworked material, such as the forelimbs, neck vertebrae and skull, and the positions assigned to vertebrae, which are what caused the double-humped sail restricted to the back and sacrum and the seemingly undersized tail), no matter what’s on @drift’s agenda. What makes one pretty angry is if someone argues against previous findings without having any evidence and as soon as this one is out accepts it as an absolute truth, as if somehow it was magically apparent that this one is accurate and others weren’t. Edited by theropod, Dec 28 2014, 06:57 AM.
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| Daspletosaurus | Dec 28 2014, 07:38 AM Post #3924 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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I just watched the 2014 documentary "Bigger then T Rex" and I thought it was pretty informative. I'm not going to argue with people and over previous posts, but putting all the iffy calculations, and scaling, and mix matching to fill in the gaps, etc... aside, I think we now have a far better look at what Spinosaurus actually looked like and how it functioned then in previous years. If Spinosaurus new posture is accurate, (and in my opinion it is. Please remember thats just my opinion) then like Ibrahim stated this would be the first ("tentative") information found and gathered of an actual aquatic "Dinosaur"!
Edited by Daspletosaurus, Dec 28 2014, 07:40 AM.
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| The Reptile | Dec 30 2014, 05:20 AM Post #3925 |
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Herbivore
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Sizes are almost always going to be ambiguous with restricted evidence on extinct creatures. Unlike modern sauropsids, which can be weighed, non-avian dinosaurs are no longer existent and as such we can only use calculation (which may or may not be accurate) to determine the length of the creature in life. And this further complicates the factor of mass, as the bone material is not an accurate determiner of total mass in life, as other bodily tissues including musculature and organs were present. But the general shape of an extinct animal is much easier to study, even if remains are limited. |
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| Vodmeister | Jan 15 2015, 02:51 AM Post #3926 |
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Ultimate Predator
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Even in 2015, I still haven't actually voted in this poll, despite it being the biggest interspecific conflict match-up on this forum. I'm such a rebel. |
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| Spartan | Jan 15 2015, 03:38 AM Post #3927 |
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Kleptoparasite
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Because of you I just voted. Spinosaurus aegyptiacus 3 (33.3%) Tyrannosaurus rex 6 (66.7%) Total Votes: 9 wtf? 9 votes total? |
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| Canadianwildlife | Jan 15 2015, 04:37 AM Post #3928 |
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Apex Predator
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The t-rex is up 45 votes to 32 against the spino in the portal polls. |
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| Creeper | Jan 15 2015, 11:13 AM Post #3929 |
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Carboniferous Arthropod
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wow something bigger than lion vs tiger! |
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| Ceratodromeus | Jan 15 2015, 11:18 AM Post #3930 |
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Aspiring herpetologist
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this poll was re-set i believe. the one on the portal shows earlier voting results, though. |
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