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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,118 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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Darker
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alikaren
Apr 27 2015, 12:52 AM
Darker, the claws probably didn't have very sharp edges. They were more hook-like for catching and maybe wrestling with large fish underwater like Mawsonia and Onchopristis (which, even though apparently smaller than 7 meters, was still large). I kind of imagine Spinosaurus as hunting like an otter :)

But still, arms wouldn't really have a major role in this fight. Tyrannosaurus would be much taller and Spinosaurus's head and neck would have much more range, power, speed, and less situational. Posted Image It'd be very hard for Spinosaurus to use its arms as weapons against a significantly taller opponent like Tyrannosaurus

Just in case anyone is curious:

Grizzly bear claw: Posted Image
Spinosaurus claw: Posted Image
(Try to imagine the keratin onto that one ;) )

EDIT: Also Darker, there's no evidence whatsoever for Spinosaurus being a macropredator.

Thank you, alikaren. First reply I see that doesn't try to take me like an ignorant fool, which I believe it's what some users may think of me. Maybe because I'm spanish, perhaps, and my english isn't that good?

I'm sorry for those who said that we use the latest designs here. I didn't know that. It was probably in the rules, but I might have missed it

I'm going with Rexie then. Any large theropod would win against this crocodile wannabe. (Don't take that seriously, please)

Posted Image


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Ceratodromeus
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To be fair, it probably could take on and even win more often then not against other large theropods, it'd probably need a size advantage though.
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Darker
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But against which theropods? We'd have to find incredibly small theropods to put them to fight Spinosaurus.
I'm not an expert on tyrannosaurids, but I believe there's no 3-5 ft tall T-Rex that we've found, so far. That's something Spinosaurus wouldn't have trouble dealing with.
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DarkGricer
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Darker
Apr 28 2015, 08:07 PM
But against which theropods? We'd have to find incredibly small theropods to put them to fight Spinosaurus.
I'm not an expert on tyrannosaurids, but I believe there's no 3-5 ft tall T-Rex that we've found, so far. That's something Spinosaurus wouldn't have trouble dealing with.
I try to stay away from the Spino VS Rex debates these days, but what the actual shiet?! Do you have any idea how tiny a 3-5 foot tall T.rex would be? A Baryonyx could destroy something like that effortlessly! Spinosaurus itself would probably do the same to a 10 foot tall T.rex! Sure, Spinosaurus might not be the best fighter on land, but you seem to be underestimating it a wee little bit here! Pretty much any there'd around the 30 foot range or smaller is going to get wrecked by a 50 foot Spinosaurus.
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Ceratodromeus
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Darker
Apr 28 2015, 08:07 PM
But against which theropods? We'd have to find incredibly small theropods to put them to fight Spinosaurus.
I'm not an expert on tyrannosaurids, but I believe there's no 3-5 ft tall T-Rex that we've found, so far. That's something Spinosaurus wouldn't have trouble dealing with.
imo theropods in the 4-6 ton range it'd handle pretty well. I tend to think Spinosaurus would do well against Acrocanthosaurus sized animals too.
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Spinodontosaurus
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Tyrannosaurus is the only tyrannosaurid that seems to have consistently reached weights higher than around 5 tonnes. The largest known Tarbosaurus is about that large, but most specimens are much smaller. I reckon Spinosaurus would have a decent chance against most Tarbosaurus specimens, and even an even better chance against smaller tyrannosaurids.

But Tyrannosaurus itself is most likely too large for it.
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genao87
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Spinodontosaurus
Apr 29 2015, 08:38 PM
Tyrannosaurus is the only tyrannosaurid that seems to have consistently reached weights higher than around 5 tonnes. The largest known Tarbosaurus is about that large, but most specimens are much smaller. I reckon Spinosaurus would have a decent chance against most Tarbosaurus specimens, and even an even better chance against smaller tyrannosaurids.

But Tyrannosaurus itself is most likely too large for it.
Since when is this new croc spino the accepted model?

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DarkGricer
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genao87
May 1 2015, 09:02 AM
Since when is this new croc spino the accepted model?

Since it was published, basically.
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Choeradodis
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Since they found the fossil material for the legs? He's talking about the corrected model by Scott Hartman, not the initial short-legged Spinosaurus.
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Grimace
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genao87
May 1 2015, 09:02 AM
Spinodontosaurus
Apr 29 2015, 08:38 PM
Tyrannosaurus is the only tyrannosaurid that seems to have consistently reached weights higher than around 5 tonnes. The largest known Tarbosaurus is about that large, but most specimens are much smaller. I reckon Spinosaurus would have a decent chance against most Tarbosaurus specimens, and even an even better chance against smaller tyrannosaurids.

But Tyrannosaurus itself is most likely too large for it.
Since when is this new croc spino the accepted model?

The old model was literally only accepted because no one knew what the legs looked like, so it was just a guess.
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bone crusher
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Spino weight
So, the National Geographic Museum puts Spinosaurus at 50ft and 7.5 tons. That's 1-1.5 tons lighter than Sue depends on which source you refer to. When are we gonna update the OP with the latest info?
Edited by bone crusher, May 15 2015, 12:18 AM.
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Jiggly Mimus
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Does anyone know what Scott put the weight at. Since I would trust him the most. (Also Spinodonto).
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theropod
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bone crusher
May 15 2015, 12:17 AM
Spino weight
So, the National Geographic Museum puts Spinosaurus at 50ft and 7.5 tons. That's 1-1.5 tons lighter than Sue depends on which source you refer to. When are we gonna update the OP with the latest info?
Correction: Actually 7.5t is between 2 and 1.4t heavier or 0.9 to 2t lighter than sue, depending on which of these sources you refer to (all of course being volumetric estimations):

Hartman, Scott (2013): Mass estimates: North vs South redux. http://www.skeletaldrawing.com/home/mass-estimates-north-vs-south-redux772013 (accessed 04 January 2015)
Hutchinson, John R.; Bates, Karl T.; Molnar, Julia; Allen, Vivian; Makovicky, Peter J. (2011): A Computational Analysis of Limb and Body Dimensions in Tyrannosaurus rex with Implications for Locomotion, Ontogeny, and Growth. PLoS ONE, Vol. 6 (10) pp. 1-20
Paul, Gregory S. (2011): Tyrannosaurus, the Lean Killing Machine. Comment on PLoS ONE, Vol. 6 (10) pp. 1-20
Stevens, Kent A.; Larson, Peter; Wills, Eric D.; Anderson, Art (2008): Rex, sit: Digital Modeling of Tyrannosaurus rex at Rest. In: Larson, Peter; Carpenter, Kenneth: Tyrannosaurus rex the Tyrant King. Bloomington pp. 193-204

Though it should be pointed out that the only scientific estimate to (albeit inofficially) accompany the new paper was 6-7t, which means that most likely FMNH PR 2081 is heavier by a few hundred kilograms, although one could argue that to be negligible on a species level.

As for your question, I’ve got doubts as to whether it will ever be updated.
Edited by theropod, May 15 2015, 01:39 AM.
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Hello theropod.

Who do you think would win? And can you post a scale.
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Spinodontosaurus
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The 3D model from Ibrahim et al. is also quite shrink-wrapped, certainly when compared to Scott Hartman's skeletals.

I don't know if anyone here has tried to properly flesh out the reared-up pose that Cau proposed, but the result for me consistently ends up looking absurdly fat around the neck and chest. The only way to stop this is to make the skin hug the skeleton, which would actually end up looking even worse.

Note this image should not be taken as an accurate representation, I'm merely posting it for discussions sake. It looks ridiculous in my opinion.
Posted Image

Anyone else given it a shot? I'm not very confident about the accuracy of mine.
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