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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,108 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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blaze
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Ligaments and muscle (both attaching to the bones) support the head, not skin.
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Jaws
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DarkGricer
Oct 22 2015, 10:31 AM
I don't really know much about the whole Paleosaurus thing, but from what I've gathered he was a huge T.rex fanboy who assumed T.rex was a 16 meter giant, whilst all the other theropods where pathetic weaklings that where 12 meters or less.
which website did he post in
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zergthe
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I still think Tyrannosaurus would win this fight, though. It may be a little safer with almost 12,800 lbs of bite force and robust stature on its side. Maybe. Possibly. Probably.
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Wombatman
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Tyrannosaurus wins for sure, just heard about the Stan individual that it healed broken ribs, a bite that pierced its braincase and even a broken neck.
So tyrannosaurus isnt only a powerful biter but also extremely hard to put down for good.
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DarkGricer
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Wombatman
Oct 23 2015, 11:30 PM
Tyrannosaurus wins for sure, just heard about the Stan individual that it healed broken ribs, a bite that pierced its braincase and even a broken neck.
So tyrannosaurus isnt only a powerful biter but also extremely hard to put down for good.
IIRC, similarly severe healed injuries have been found on other theropods, like Allosaurus. So I doubt that T.rex was alone in its being hard to put down.
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Wombatman
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DarkGricer
Oct 23 2015, 11:39 PM
Wombatman
Oct 23 2015, 11:30 PM
Tyrannosaurus wins for sure, just heard about the Stan individual that it healed broken ribs, a bite that pierced its braincase and even a broken neck.
So tyrannosaurus isnt only a powerful biter but also extremely hard to put down for good.
IIRC, similarly severe healed injuries have been found on other theropods, like Allosaurus. So I doubt that T.rex was alone in its being hard to put down.
Probably. Anyway, got links to the other theropod who healed snapped ribs, broken neck and pierced braincase?
Edit: and managed to grow to adult size
Edited by Wombatman, Oct 24 2015, 12:51 AM.
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theropod
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^Err, Stan is only 18 years old, it certainly didn’t live out the entire 28 year+ lifespan of a T. rex, and neither did the vast majority of other specimens. of course that applies to wild animals in general.

An Allosaurus sp. with fractured the ribs, neck vertebra and scapula, among others:
https://peerj.com/articles/940/
This one you have certainly heard of; rib, manus and pes fractures, including gruesome infection, and abnormal bone growth in the spine:
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1671/0272-4634%282002%29022%5B0076%3AMIAIIA%5D2.0.CO%3B2#
Pathological, heavily deformed dentary of an Allosaurus specimen, initially considered a distinct genus because of it:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Labrosaurus.jpg

These are just some examples, of what theropods commonly endured. There are many more pathological specimens of Allosaurus alone (e.g. Molnar 2001).

Stop always behaving as if Tyrannosaurus was the only theropod that often suffered severe injuries.
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Wombatman
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Im not a t-rex fanboy if that was hinted, indeed more of an Allosaurus guy. I had heard about the Allosaur wounded by a stegosaur tail (it died from it) and of course Big All and Broken Jaw.
But the point is that Stan got its head chewed by another tyranno, its neck vertebraes crushed and its ribs broken and still recovered from all this wounds and reached maturity (maybe not full size if they didnt stop growing)
The Spinosaurus here isnt tanking that kind of damage from a Tyrannosaurus and neither delivering it back
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theropod
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If T. rex could survive those injuries, there’s no reason to think Spinosaurus (or any other theropod for that matter) couldn’t do the same. To suggest otherwise would be to imply physiological differences (in terms of healing ability, resistance to infection and blood loss etc.) that there is no evidence for whatsoever.
That it survived means these injuries were not fatal, ergo the equivalent injury would not be fatal to another animal. Or do you have any evidence that there’s something about T. rex’ brain that would make it less dangerous for it to have its braincase punctured? Or maybe something about its vertebrae that would make a broken neck less of an issue?
Neither of those is necessarily fatal, in any animal, that’s what this tells us, not that T. rex wouldn’t die from injuries fatal to other animals.

Also, the last time I checked, the pathologies on BHI 3033 weren’t actually reliably described anywhere, the details are sort of vague.
Edited by theropod, Oct 24 2015, 03:43 AM.
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Wombatman
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Then if Tyrannosaurus biting the Spinosaurus in the brain zone of the skull and the neck vertebrae doesnt kill it, I dont know what will.
Neither of them win by default, since Spino bite force is even weaker
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theropod
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^That isn’t what I said. Spinosaurus’ neck would likely be easier to break for T. rex than the reverse, but your argument was besides the point;
Once broken, the injury would be no more dangerous to Spinosaurus than to T. rex, yet all you did was provide an example of a T. rex that survived such an injury.

I have already provided you with proof that other theropods also survived dangerous and debilitating injuries, and it is likely that a wide array of non-avian theropodshave a certain inherent resilience to injuries (e.g. immune system capable of keeping bone infections at bay for extended periods of time: http://scholarworks.montana.edu/xmlui/handle/1/7867). There is no reason to think that if Spinosaurus had an equivalent injury it wouldn’t also have equivalent chances of survival. Of course depending on an animal’s bone structure such an injury can be more or less easy to inflict on it, that’s self evident.
Edited by theropod, Oct 24 2015, 08:35 PM.
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Wombatman
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Sorry if I was confusing, I meant that the bone structure of Stan tanked bites from another Tyrannosaurus on vital zones without excessive problems, not that it healed magically. An allosaurus or an spinosaurus could probably take a beating from other of its species, but those arent brone-crushing specialized theropods.
I dont think a gharial could take skull bites from an american aligator as comfortably as an american alligator could, even with size advantage. Its a good parallelism of this fight on my opinion.
Edited by Wombatman, Oct 24 2015, 09:32 PM.
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theropod
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Quote:
 
Sorry if I was confusing, I meant that the bone structure of Stan tanked bites from another Tyrannosaurus on vital zones without excessive problems, not that it healed magically.

Well, somehow the only evidence you provided was evidence to the contrary (evidence that it sustained severe injuries to this very bone structure).

Quote:
 
An allosaurus or an spinosaurus could probably take a beating from other of its species, but those arent brone-crushing specialized theropods.
That only means a similarly serious injury caused in such encounters probably wouldn’t leave such prominent osteological traces, because the bites would not be aimed at crushing bones. That doesn’t mean they were necessarily less damaging.
Edited by theropod, Oct 24 2015, 11:52 PM.
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blaze
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Edit: I got confused with the braincase injury (broken off "sagittal crest"), the neck injury resulted in two fused cervicals but I can't find more details.
Edited by blaze, Oct 25 2015, 12:22 AM.
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Jaws
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this is a mismatch t rex has a size advantage
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